Godet

[Biro]

There is some astoundingly good information in this thread... Well done to all the contributors.

I sincerely hope that at the end of it, we are able to make a few categorical statements about the evolution of the GODET firm, it's time line, their various maker marks and their various products.

One thing is certain - if we include The Kleitmanns' tenure, we are now up to FOUR companies operating as a 'Godet' entity from the 1930's thru to the 1970's when Frau Kleitmann finally shut up shop... with at least TWO of those operations known to have been operating concurrently during the interwar period.

Therefore, that there is also a VAST number of quite significantly different Godet maker marks in existence probably comes as no great surprise in hindsight. Sadly, this also brings about it's own set of problems. If it only says 'GODET' on the back of the product, it could easily be 1914 J Godet offering, a 1930's Gebruder Godet, a 1970's Klietmann, or indeed just an outright modern fake. Not a new conundrum for the collecting community I know, but complicated yet further by what appears to have been a third legitimate Godet offshoot.. "Godet u. Co" .. from 1946 to at the very least 1955 (according to the letter Trevor has kindly posted).

One would assume Dora Godet and Herr Kaiser didn't set about making iron crosses or plm's in 1946 marked 'Godet' of course.... but they were retailing something .... and given the family history, one would have to assume it was military related (medal bar mountings perhaps? Ribbons?)

Les's observation is entirely correct... Until we know more about what the 1946 "Godet u. Co" traded, it's hard to speculate.... but the already convoluted world of Godet just became one layer murkier..

Marshall

[Eagle]

This letter is interesting and was sent to me by a friend in Germany for use in this thread. It is from the Kleitmann Archiv, whence he personally copied it, and is dated 1955.

It confirms, among other little tidbits, that:

Gebrüder Godet was founded by jewelers Jean and Eugene Godet, together with banker Oscar Mathesius, on 25 October 1930 (I had speculated 1931 in the first post of this thread).

Also of interest is that a company called "Godet u. Co." was established on 9 April 1946.

On a separate note, my same friend has explained some very compelling evidence to me that Gebrüder Godet did not inherit the dies and tools from J. Godet, but rather had to manufacture new ones, for at least one major decoration (the HoH in all classes).

My thanks to member Komtur for the information and the letter.

This information, I gave in Post #133.

And please, its not KLEITMANN, its Klietmann!!!

[streptile]

This information, I gave in Post #133.

Yes you did Now we have the document in the thread as well.

And please, its not KLEITMANN, its Klietmann!!!

For english-speakers, the "ei" and "ie" in German can be a difficulty. Thank you for the correction.

[Biro]

.....In 1964 the company "Die Ordenssammlung" took over (Owner Anneliese Klietmann) Godet. (purchased)

According to a note placed in the 60 years the company Juncker made for Godet (Die Ordenssammlung) eg Luisen-Order and several House Order of Hohenzollern for the general administration of the Prussian House....

Hi Eagle

As you said, you mentioned the contents of the Klietmann document in your post #133. Thanks for that.

Could you please clarify what you meant by your statement above which I have pulled from the bottom of your post (#133).

The language barrier is difficult I know, but the way you have worded it, it appears that you are suggesting that the Juncker company made the Luisen-Order and several House Order of Hohenzollern for 'Godet' - and then after Godet you have put in brackets (Die Ordenssammlung)

Obviously I have misunderstood this as Juncker were gone (bombed) by the end of WW2 and the Klietmanns reign didn't begin until the 1960's.

Any chance you can clarify your statement?

Cheers

Marshall

[Don D.]

At least having IDed all these "Godet" companies we can now explain the wide range of "quality" found in awards attributed to Godet.

[VtwinVince]

This mini from my great grandfather dates from about 1910.

[Eagle]

Hi Eagle


The language barrier is difficult I know, but the way you have worded it, it appears that you are suggesting that the Juncker company made the Luisen-Order and several House Order of Hohenzollern for 'Godet' - and then after Godet you have put in brackets (Die Ordenssammlung)

Obviously I have misunderstood this as Juncker were gone (bombed) by the end of WW2 and the Klietmanns reign didn't begin until the 1960's.

Any chance you can clarify your statement?

Cheers

Marshall

Hi Biro, this informations we all find in the "Klietmann-Archive".
There are some notes for the history of the companys Juncker an Godet.
Booth companys, Juncker an Godet would be destroyed in the year 1944.
But the company of Juncker was not closed for long, Godet too. Juncker do their things till Dec. 1965. After Dec. 1965 the company of Juncker was closed.
The company "Die Ordensammlung" was owned by Anneliese Klietmann. This company must be foundet in the early or mid 1950ties. In the year 1964 we find a notice from the "Companys-Court" (Amtsgericht Charlottenburg):
"5. Juni 1964 / Löschungen
90 HRA 948/Nz. Godet u. Co. (zuletzt: 1 Berlin 42, Tempelhofer Damm 127). Die Firma ist erloschen."
So, the company of Godet &. Co was official deletet in Jun. 1964.

Next we have a notice from K-G. Klietmann, from 12. Jan. 1973. He wrote:
1964 übernahm das Ordens-Spezialgeschäft "Die Ordensammlung" in Berlin auch die Juwelier-Firma Godet und führte sie im alten Sinne weiter.
In my Order, Anneliese Klietmann buy the rest of the equipment and the rights to use the Name of the Godet-Company. I was in the 70ties in the rooms of the "Die Ordenssammlung"-Company. But it dont was a jeweler, and you dont find a name of Godet at the door.
In some telephon-books, you will find the company of Godet at the same adress as the "Ordenssammlung", Wielandstr. 16.
And we have the notice from K.-G. Klietmann, that Juncker deliver some houseorders to "Godet", orderd from Anneliese Klietmann.

I think the Hohenzollern-Family was needed some houseorders in the 60ties, and try to find their old jeweler. But their find only the Godet-Company which was "owned" now by Anneliese Klietmann. She recive the message, that the Hohenzollern-Family want to buy some houseorders. But she was not a jeweler, she only was a dealer. She dont have a manufactur or tools to make orders or ribbons. So she ask the Juncker-Company to made some Houseorders for reselling.

[Biro]

Thank you Eagle!!

I wasn't aware Juncker went back into business at all after the bombing, so that is new information for me.

Marshall

[Komtur]

... I think the Hohenzollern-Family was needed some houseorders in the 60ties, and try to find their old jeweler. But their find only the Godet-Company which was "owned" now by Anneliese Klietmann. She recive the message, that the Hohenzollern-Family want to buy some houseorders. But she was not a jeweler, she only was a dealer. She dont have a manufactur or tools to make orders or ribbons. So she ask the Juncker-Company to made some Houseorders for reselling.

These are quite good points you made! I think I know, how these Godet/Juncker items look alike. Unfortunately I am not allowed to post pictures.

Regards, Komtur.

[streptile]

The story becomes even more labyrinthine.

Unfortunately I am not allowed to post pictures. Regards, Komtur.

I am posting this information from Komtur.

So this first image is of an HoH from Thies' first online auction. It is described as a postwar piece from Juncker. My understanding is that the theory is this is the type made by Juncker on orders from Annelise Klietmann, acting as "Godet," to supply the Hohenzollern family with some required awards.

[streptile]

Next we have a breast star with swords. This one is from an old Klenau auction catalogue. Apparently Klenau consistently described these types as of postwar Juncker manufacture.

My personal observation is the length of the swords. They are quite a bit longer than we are used to seeing on the HoH.

[streptile]

I think the Hohenzollern-Family was needed some houseorders in the 60ties, and try to find their old jeweler. But their find only the Godet-Company which was "owned" now by Anneliese Klietmann. She recive the message, that the Hohenzollern-Family want to buy some houseorders. But she was not a jeweler, she only was a dealer. She dont have a manufactur or tools to make orders or ribbons. So she ask the Juncker-Company to made some Houseorders for reselling.

I think this is a very interesting and defensible theory.

Does it mean that no awards were manufactured by Godet after 1944? Or did "Godet und Co." eventually manufacture tools and dies for making various awards? Interestingly, this piece (marked for Godet and thought to be postwar) seems to be from different tools:







So did Godet make their own tools later?

[Komtur]

... HoH from Thies' first online auction. It is described as a postwar piece from Juncker. ...

Sorry, but there is a small missunderstanding in that case: as far, as I remember, this HOH Komtur was NOT described as post war and Juncker. I sended these pictures, because they are more detailed, then the one of the star from the Klenau catalogue of the late 80ies. Klenau did connect this series in his catalogue with Juncker(s). IMHO there is no doubt, that both decorations have the same "style" (if we can speak of style at all ) and came from the same maker. You can see that clearly by the center, wich are always identical in all Komtur classes (crosses and stars).

Regards, Komtur.

[Komtur]

The stars of that style (to) often appear in auctions and with dealers. Two days before there were 3 (!) in the Zeige auction (2 not sold, 1 sold for only 750 Euro ). He described them as "post 1918". But that can mean a lot. Not only once these were definitely described before as modern copies, so in Dorotheum (Wien) and Thies auctions. Until now, I only know 3 stars, wich are connected to Doorn period. They look different (and more beautiful).

Please, beware of GODET BERLIN 935 on the pin of a HOH star

Regards, Komtur.

[Biro]

The stars of that style (to) often appear in auctions and with dealers. Two days before there were 3 (!) in the Zeige auction (2 not sold, 1 sold for only 750 Euro ). He described them as "post 1918". But that can mean a lot. Not only once these were definitely described before as modern copies, so in Dorotheum (Wien) and Thies auctions. Until now, I only know 3 stars, wich are connected to Doorn period. They look different (and more beautiful).

Please, beware of GODET BERLIN 935 on the pin of a HOH star

Regards, Komtur.

Thank you for your input Komtur.

In your opinion, is the star pictured directly above marked 'GODET SILBER 935' a product of:

1) the firm established in 1946 by Dora Godet known as 'Godet u. Co',
2) the 1960's 'GODET' run by Anneliese Klietmann,
3) the Juncker firm, re-established post WW2
4) None of these three..


Marshall