West German Polizei

[Gordon Craig]

#4

[Gordon Craig]

Pictures of a TR polizei tunic made from the same type of material as the Hessen tunic. Astronomical range in prices!

[Gordon Craig]

This tunic was on the estand a few weeks ago. I didn't buy it.

[SCHUPO]

Very nice Gordon!

Some think that this summer weight "salt & pepper" material continued to be made after the war and some think it was left over material. Depending upon the construction some will be more brown and some will be more green. Generally speaking closed collar tunics are wartime and open collar tunics in this material are early postwar. It could be that the green bars are NCO rank designators rather than officer rank since it had no rank collar tabs or shoulderboards.

I suspect the lighter color shirt was made to be worn with an open collar tunic while the darker shirt with metal buttons could be worn in shirtsleeve dress with or without a jacket.

[Gordon Craig]

schupo,

I don't think shoulder boards were worn with this type of rank insignia. Green could very well be NCO but I would think officers (higher ranks) would use bars but in a different colour. That was done in Bavaria and a number of other states up until 1965. I have just received a number of pictures of early tunics West German uniforms sold by the World Police Museum in Milan Italy that support this theory. I'll post them later but right now here is another one of these "salt and pepper" tunics from my picture archives. I have a tunic like this from Bavaria as well but can not find pictures of it. I do have pictures of my M43 style cap that goes with the Bavarian "salt and Pepper" tunic.
I'll post the Bavarian rank insignia up to 1965 as well.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

More pictures of the "salt and pepper" cap.

[Gordon Craig]

The Bavarian rank structure from 1947 up to 1965. This is from the Polizeihistorische Sammlung web site. Silver ranks are listed from one bar to four as;
Oberwachmeister, Polizeimeister, Polizeiobermeister, Polizei Hauptmeister.
And for gold starting at the single bar as;
Inspektor, Oberinspektor, Amtmann, Oberamtmann.
There would appear to be some ranks missing between Oberamtmann and Poliizeidirektor.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Polizeidirektor from Bavaria.

[Klaus1989]

Gordon,
The salt and pepper tunics are summer tunic, which were also worn for work duty or in field in hot weather. In early years, there is not so much distinction between service and field uniforms. The Bavarian Landpolizei summer jacket is interesting. Knew, that the Bepo in Bavaria wore them, but had not known about Landpolizei. West Berlin had a blue salt and pepper summer tunic, but these are often overpriced, because sellers think, they are "Luftwaffe summer tunics".

Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

Gents,

This picture was advertised as depicting an East German KVP, but upon arrival, I quickly determined that our friend Karl-Heinz was a Wessie Schupo.

One thing that surprised me about the photo was the date. I would have placed this setting in the mid to late fifties. In fact, the photo is dated March 1946.

In any event, I present Karl-Heinz on his wedding day for your viewing pleasure.

All the best,
TJ

TJ,
Interesting photo. If you look closely, look like tunic is dyed WH tunic converted to open collar. Maybe Berlin or S-H? The collartabs seem to match. Although not sure, what 1946 uniforms look like.

Regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

TJ,
Interesting photo. If you look closely, look like tunic is dyed WH tunic converted to open collar. Maybe Berlin or S-H? The collartabs seem to match. Although not sure, what 1946 uniforms look like.

Regards
Klaus

Hi Klaus,

Thanks for the hint. I'm pretty sure now that it's S-H. Interesting observation on the tunic!

Many thanks,
TJ

P.S. - Gents absolutely gorgeous collectibles on this thread, thanks for showing.

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

My first thoughts on seeing TJs picture was that it was sold for what it is. That is an early SBZ (Soviet zone for those not familiar with the term) Volkspolizei man. I have now satisfied myself that it is very early post war East German and I sent a PM to TJ with my thoughts before posting them. My reference for this is the book "Polizei-Abzeichen - Helme-Heraldik-Historische 3. Band 1945-1993 pages 106-108 plus my own collection.
Here is a picture of the cap badges worn by the German States in the SBZ Plus the etx that goes along with it from the referenced book.

EARLY EAST GERMAN POLIZEI CAP BADGES.

Abb. 3/79. Mützenabzeichen der Volkspolizei, oben in Sachsen (o27 mm); Mitte li.: Mecklenburg, rechts: Thüringen; unten links: Sachsen-Anhalt, rechts: Sachsen, mitte:Schildwappen schwarz-rot-gelb ab 19500 für alle länder außer in Berlin=Ost-teil; alle Sterne von 31 mm o; Sa.-Anhalt und Sachsen in unterer Reihe aus Weißmetall, sonst Aluminum. Runde Abzeichen der Zeit 1947/48 wurden teilweise bis 1950 getragen, insbesondere bei der Feuerwehr.

Fig. 3/79th cap badge of the Volkspolizei, above in Saxony (ø27 mm); Middle left: Mecklenburg, right: Thuringia, Germany; bottom left: Saxony-Anhalt, right: Saxony, Middle: shield emblem of black red yellow from 1950 for all countries except in Berlin = eastern part; All Star by 31 mm ø; SA-Anhalt and Saxony in lower range from white metal or aluminum. Round badge of time 1947/48 held partially until 1950, in particular at the fire department.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

My cap with the round badge from this time period.

[Gordon Craig]

More pictures of this early cap.

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Going back to the "salt and pepper" tunics. After Klaus made his post re these tunics I took another look at the two that I have and there are distinct differences. The Hessen tunic was definitely made as a field tunic although there is no reason why it couldn't be worn for regular police duties as well. It has three belt ramp holes in the body of the tunic as well as a reinforcing trap on the inside very much like TR combat tunics.