BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[ReinerMB42]

Mag Pouches

Sorry to correct you Steve,

but it´s TWH, the name of the maker. I don´t think that the THW - as a civil support organisation - has any weapons
Best regards

Reiner

[Collectinsteve]

Sorry to correct you Steve,

but it´s TWH, the name of the maker. I don´t think that the THW - as a civil support organisation - has any weapons
Best regards

Reiner

You know... as I was typing that I was thinking about weapons and THW, but tired brain didn't complete the thought. I guess my dyslexia and sleep deprivation did not help me here Thanks for the correction so my mistake doesn't confuse people.

The reason my brain went in the wrong direction is there is ZB/ZS/THW and Polizei equipment that is practically the same as BGS equipment. Sometimes the ONLY difference is the stamp (especially leather items), but usually there is a color difference. Although my post about TWH was incorrect, I think it's always good to remember this when putting together a BGS uniform collection.

Steve

[michelwijnand]

It's marked TWH though

[Collectinsteve]

Yup! Clearly I needed some Hilfe last night

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Steve,

brown leather is Meister and officer ranks, not think it stopped before 1976. There is colour photos/footage from early 70s, that still show brown belts worn.

It is only less common to find photos of Meister or officers (especially Meister - see very few photos of these ranks), which make it appear, that black belts were worn by everyone.

Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

TWH is maker of most MP5 pouches, unfortunately still unidentified.

[Collectinsteve]

Steve,

brown leather is Meister and officer ranks, not think it stopped before 1976. There is colour photos/footage from early 70s, that still show brown belts worn.

It is only less common to find photos of Meister or officers (especially Meister - see very few photos of these ranks), which make it appear, that black belts were worn by everyone.

Regards
Klaus

Thanks for the information. I knew you were the right guy to comment on this

OK, so it is probable that brown leather was approved for use all the way to the 1976 changes, but that Meister ranks did not often wear them. I can think of several reasons (not wanting to seem pompous, short supply, they had to spend some of their own money to upgrade, etc) why this might be the case. But regardless of the reason, I agree with you that it is not common to see pictures of brown belts in the later years. Which is why I thought maybe they were officially dropped prior to 1976.

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Steve,

Meister ranks always wore them (up to 1976), it is only uncommon to find photos of Meister at all. Not mean the belts... might have not been very clear with wording.

Regards
Klaus

[Nachrichten]

Steve,

Meister ranks always wore them (up to 1976), it is only uncommon to find photos of Meister at all. Not mean the belts... might have not been very clear with wording.

Regards
Klaus

For what it's worth, I agree with Klaus.

All my sources tell me that the brown belt was the sign of the senior NCO in the BGS (a bit like the wearing of portepee on their dress bayonets by senior NCO's during the 3R period).

There is some Youtube footage in which the brown belt is clearly apparent posted elsewhere in this link (I believe).

N

[Johan_S]

My apologies if I missed it in an earlier post, but could anyone clarify which ranks would be issued a MP5?

As well, it seems like the MP5 magazine pouches are being sold on hkparts.net

[Klaus1989]

My apologies if I missed it in an earlier post, but could anyone clarify which ranks would be issued a MP5?

As well, it seems like the MP5 magazine pouches are being sold on hkparts.net

MPs were issued by role rather than rank, mostly to Gruppenführer and higher (and of course after 1972 to GSG9). But mostly outside GSG9 were carried by Wachtmeister ranks, because these ranks normally held the position, that would be issued MP. The MP5 began to replace the Beretta MP after 1967. Curved magazines came later in 70s (1976).

Regards
Klaus

[Johan_S]

MPs were issued by role rather than rank, mostly to Gruppenführer and higher (and of course after 1972 to GSG9). But mostly outside GSG9 were carried by Wachtmeister ranks, because these ranks normally held the position, that would be issued MP. The MP5 began to replace the Beretta MP after 1967. Curved magazines came later in 70s (1976).

Regards
Klaus

Thanks for the info, I've seen an image of the entire series of MP5s including MP5Ks being listed as BGS equipment, do you think you might have any information on that as well?

Also, for anyone wondering, the pouches from HKParts.net are stamped "Bund" and arrive wrapped in a package labelled Magazintragetasche fur MP5. It was virtually brand new in condition, and I will post pictures later.

[GREENEDUDLEY]

I purchased this early jacket with missing BGS patch. The material looks similar to old Bundeswehr moleskin style material. What type of patch would go on the arm and what time from was this used.

[GREENEDUDLEY]

Here is the inside and back.

[Collectinsteve]

Nice find!

The missing badge is an eagle bevo badge sewn onto a slightly larger HBT badge shaped backing. For the normal wool service uniform of the day it was the same badge but on dark green felt backing.

Steve