BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Klaus1989]

Gordon:

Your Schiffchen was worn by land forces of BGS late 1960s-70s. Usually they have cloth Bundeskokarde on front (like Bw items). Earlier models do not have ear flaps and have bullion or metal Kokarden. BGS-See wore navy type uniforms and followed navy traditions, so their dress and work uniforms are blue.

Still trying to discover when/for what Schiffchen was worn. They appear in photographs with both field and service uniforms.

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Thanks for your comments. I was "reaching" when I suggest the GS Sea for this cap but since we are having such difficulty identifying its exact use I just thought I would throw the idea out there. Good to know the period of wear as well. Now to add cockades to my hats so they are complete.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Gordon:
Found this photo of one in wear with field uniform by BGS Fähnrich (I think?) on German forum. Apparently they are just an optional winter cap because Grenzer in backround wear normal Feldmützen. There is no pocket or sleeve patch, so I guess that dates this photo to early-mid 1960s. I was somewhat wrong. Note cloth diamond shaped Kokarde like on Bw Schiffchen.



If you read German, it is discussion about various Mützen. Someone posted his complete version of the BGS Schiffchen:
http://www.multi-board.com/board/ind...13462&pageNo=2

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Thanks for the link. Interesting to see the cap with the cockade in place. Now I know what to look for for sure.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,
Thursday morning, 14 May, 09, I had the pleaseure of travelling to a Militaria Wholesalers ware house with my friend Sándor. A huge building with literally tons of militaria surplus. It is primarily for stores to buy stuff but guys like us, just off the street, can buy as well for a slight markup of 20%. Still dirt cheap compared to what the militaria stores in Budapest sell the same stuff for!
Anyway, I found some Hungarian army stuff, nice cammo cape by the way in new unissued condition, some DDR stuff and for this forum a BGS piece. Now you are going to cry when you see what someone has done to it but for the price I could not resist. It is a long, hooded, winter cammo coat that appears to have been made in 68. Unfortunately, some enterprising person has removed the sleeves!

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The back of the coat.

[Gordon Craig]

A close up view of the D rings and cloth loops on the back of the coat. DougO mentioned these as existing on a cammo coat that he owns earlier in this thread.

[Gordon Craig]

The loop and button on the shoulder for attaching the boards.

[Gordon Craig]

The Assman markings on the buttons.

[Gordon Craig]

The pebbled surface of the shoulder board button.

[Gordon Craig]

The makers label. The coat has a very heavy removable lining. This label is on the removable lining. There is an identical label in the coat pocket.

[Hugh Zillmann old]

I could just scream. I think I will.

WHY DO THEY HAVE TO CUT THE SLEEVES OFF!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about that, Gentlemen. I'm feeling better now.

I have seen some absolutely fascinating German uniforms (East and West) that have been mutilated in this or similar fashion (I recall a "mint" East German officers great coat that was dyed black - cufftitle; schulterklappen and all; an early Bundesluftwaffe service tunic that had been shortened and had a pretty little denim waistband added - very cute..and so on).

I've had to "rescue" Austrian and German items from re-enactors hell-bent on modifying them to look original (Why? They already are.)...... Thankfully the reproduction market flourished and this has largely stopped (I hope) those who try to make a Post-War Austrian Cam uniform an "SS derivative pattern" (I had a "dealer" argue this one with me at an Arms Show here a couple of years ago!) A sleeve eagle does not an "artifact" make. Now, if we can only convince the wholesalers to stop modifying before putting the items to market, we may have a chance of avoiding this type of desecration. I mean, it must cost them money to effect these changes. Does it make the item more marketable? Wouldn't it be cheaper to include an instruction sheet on how the buyer could "modify" the uniform to look more fashionable? Give them options? A spare pair of sleeves, at least?

Look at the condition of this jacket. It was a beautiful example of a BGS parka. Now it's a waistcoat and not a very practical one at that.

Makes me want to scream......................

Cheers,

Hugh

[Gordon Craig]

Hugh,

Thanks for screaming for me. I suspect that someone who worked in the militaria warehouse modified it to wear while they worked. The girl that served us had a lined jacket on which she had cut the sleeves off. This was the only one they had left and since you rarely find coats complete with the lining I bought it. I don't think I'll bother looking for sleeve for it!

Regards,

Gordon

[Asbjoern]

There may be a very simple explanation for BGS parkas without sleeves ... especially the BGS is very intrestet in not selling 100% complete equipment with all the patches ... all insignia has to be removed before selling uniforms. Sometimes they are removed carefully and the fabric istn`t demaged alt all, sometimes you have little cuts in it, but sometimes they cut the patches out / cut of the sleves compeltely to do this job faster ...
Even the helmets where only sold as scrap and had to be destroyed under official controll!

Jens

[michelwijnand]

Hugh,

Thanks for screaming for me. I suspect that someone who worked in the militaria warehouse modified it to wear while they worked. The girl that served us had a lined jacket on which she had cut the sleeves off. This was the only one they had left and since you rarely find coats complete with the lining I bought it. I don't think I'll bother looking for sleeve for it!

Regards,

Gordon

If you're looking for a complete parka, try Ebay.de
Most of the time there are multiple parkas for sale there.
I bought one there for 30 Euro complete with lining, the only thing that was missing was the patch on the sleeve pocket.