Thoughts on this ebay item

[lnijherald]

The seller is a fellow forum member, he can be contacted at: jack@chairbornemilitaria.co.uk

Cheers, Luc

[SMP]

The seller is a fellow forum member, he can be contacted at: jack@chairbornemilitaria.co.uk

Cheers, Luc

Is is Jack D-R ?

[Gary Jucha]

Don't think so

I don't think this is one of Jacks Alias's .... he normally under "Deadly-Donut" ... whoops ... I meant "Deadly-Delta" on E-bay ..

... There again, he's based in the same region as Chairborne Militaria !!!!!

.. Come on Jack own up !!! is it you ??

Gary J.

Is is Jack D-T ?

[Gary Jucha]

Tim..

Tim, all looks to be ok from the photo's .. the leather sweatband looks to be very clean ......
.....I suspect the straps have been out, as normally the leather straps tended to be crossed over at the back of the helmet ...

Gary J.

What are the thoughts on this helmet, I'm not sure about it but would like to hear any other opinions.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=012
Tim.

[jelle]

well I am not that sure the helmet is ok.Sorry Jack.Chinstraps don't look good,the liner is facing the wrong way and some other details are a bit odd.Allthough Jack has usually great stuff for sale ,this one I would not touch.

[Gary Jucha]

Good point

I missed that one Jelle !! (liner facing the wrong way .. ) .....
.. So !! the liner has been out, ... and reassembled with the straps uncrossed !

Gary J

well I am not that sure the helmet is ok.Sorry Jack.Chinstraps don't look good,the liner is facing the wrong way and some other details are a bit odd.Allthough Jack has usually great stuff for sale ,this one I would not touch.

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Johan, I'd be very interested to know what you mean when you say the liner is the wrong way? And why do you think the straps are no good? And "some other details a bit odd"? Please explain.

It really annoys me when some of an inexperienced collector, like yourself, throw around opinions without any explanation or for that matter, evidence! I don't want to sound defensive, but it's not the first time you've incorrectly rubbished an item.

Please feel free to have a good discussion about this helmet, I have no problem at all. The more we can learn these things, the better. I am by no means an expert on helmets but I can't see anything wrong with this one.

Thanks
Jack

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

If you are talking about the vertical seam where the liner has been stitched together being at the front instead of the back I can see what you mean, but, I really don't think this is a problem as to a machinist/assembler would it make any difference? I can only put it down to an oddity. Can we really dismiss a helmet because of this?

[SMP]

........and some other details are a bit odd.

including: 1. Late-war paint, yet a very early liner ( too early ?)
2. Late-war artificial rubber ( type found in MKIII web helmets)
3. Shiny retaining nuts.
4. Missing inner white-felt strip.
I'm not saying any of these things are wrong Jack, but Jelle is right to point out the odd features of this particular helmet. It does not conform to the standard.

Regards,
Steve

[Gary Jucha]

Jack

Jack, I just checked my 4 airbrone helmets, and all have the seam to the rear.
.. There is a possibility that the person who previously owned the helmet (or further back .... ) had taken the liner out, because the aluminium band had rotted through - thus not allowing the securing bolts to hold fast. (I have seen this on a couple of helmets.)
.. And, to remedy the liner not holding, it has been reversed and the mount positions have been redrilled on the alloy band to accomodate the reversed liner.

... Again, someone has "been in there" as the straps arn't crossed ..... but as we know ... liners were taken out and modded in some cases ..

Regards

Gary J.

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Hiya Steve,

Yes, you're right, when these things don't quite conform to the standard or the textbook appearance that a lot of collectors want they are often cast aside.

I have not got a problem wth Johan mentioning anything he wants to mention but when he leaves it as "some other details are a bit odd" with no explanation or evidence it is a bit frustrating especially to the seller. But thank you for clarifying this.

My conclusion is that this helmet has been put together later on in the war (post-1942) from a combination of new stock and older stock. There was a war on you know!

Just one more thing too...I'm not going mad am I...but I can't seem to see anything wrong with the leather straps at all? They're identical to another fibre rim I have!

Jack.

[lnijherald]

I don't think WWII lasted long enough for an aluminium band to rot through? There's a natural anti-corrosive layer found on aluminium and it would take a strong acid to dissolve this. Sorry Gary but I don't believe this is the case.

But how about the white felt layer? I'm willing to believe the liner was assembled backwards as an oddity (even though it must be very uncomfortable for the wearer) but did they forget to put in the felt completely? That seems unlikely.

Cheers, Luc

[Gary Jucha]

Luc

Luc, I actually meant after about 50 - 60 years ....
Helmets I've seen recently where the band has been damp, and the alloy starts to go "furry" ..

Cheers

Gary J.

I don't think WWII lasted long enough for an aluminium band to rot through? There's a natural anti-corrosive layer found on aluminium and it would take a strong acid to dissolve this. Sorry Gary but I don't believe this is the case.

But how about the white felt layer? I'm willing to believe the liner was assembled backwards as an oddity (even though it must be very uncomfortable for the wearer) but did they forget to put in the felt completely? That seems unlikely.

Cheers, Luc

[Old Smelly]

Do all airborne helmets have the white felt? I have just been sent a fibre rim on SoR that has the early liner with the felt spacers between the rubber and this has no white felt. I'm sure this is absent on some of the early liners, anyone know ?
Lee

[jelle]

I did think of not giving my personal oppinion on this helmet,but that somehow didn't feel right.I must admit reading back my comment, it is not very detailed and maybe a bit harsh.As I know Jack as a very honest and knowligable collector /seller my post was in no way an attack on that reputation.Thanks to smp and luc for detailing my conserns on the helmet ,but I have not heard any other opinions on the chinstraps,so this remains just my opinion[which could be wrong,as said I have been wrong before] and made from pictures.I find it odd that the stiching on the inside of the cinstrap is white while the leather has darkend,and the eyelets through wich the bolt goes to fasten the chinstrap to the helmet ,look different from wat i have seen in helmets they are smooth not cartly[probably not a inglish word].So I hope to be wronged on them.And yes helmets were rebuildt and repainted ,repaired.Soldiers swopped liners for bettter fit,anything is possible.

Regards Johan