Craig Gottlieb & "Nazi War Diggers"

[ebj]

It's sad to see the desecration of a hobby that began back in the 1950s. Many of us youngsters were fascinated with the war souvenirs brought back by returning WW 2 vets. We watched movies such as "Breakthrough" and found it fascinating to hold a piece of an enemy uniform in our hands. We just wanted to make a collection and dig into the history behind the pieces.

Now, what used to be fun to collect, share, research and discuss is being drug through the mud by a bunch of profiteers and sadists. Shame on them.

[Mil-Archive]

And who could forget this with his underhanded dealings and attempt to get Don B to lie about a ring. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=353133

I guess what I am getting at is that perhaps airing the dirty laundry is beginning to catch up with him all started by his disrespect in handling the remains!

Kevin

Just read that entire thread, took a couple of hours but it was a hell of an eye opener.

Having now read the self authenticating Mengele thread, the grave digging thread and now that entire 50+ page Honour Ring authentication thread my mind is firmly made up on the subject of the person behind each of those episodes.

[eldenwaff]

Two thumbs and two big toes up Hoss. There's too many godlike figures passing judgement as if they were perfect themselves.

You never did answer the question [sent in response to your pm]:

Are you or are you not disturbed by scavengers looting the graves of fallen soldiers ?
Perhaps your answer will shed some light on why you feel compelled to jump to Craigs defense so often [3 times just in this 1 thread].

I repeat what I have said before, you have the perfect right to defend him, a little insight as to why would be helpful, maybe you can convince me and others to lighten up.

[Jägermarty]

Get real, half of the collectors are glad to buy ground dug relics and ignore the fact they are taken from gravesites and mass war casualty burials. The only outrage is because many do not like Craig. Get over it, he is a star and the rest of us are not. If that is what you seek, go out and work for it.

Bob Hritz

No, you get real Bob, I don't know anyone that buys ground dug items from Eastern Europe.
It should stop, but it won't. So the more grave diggers that blow themselves up on unexploded ordinance, the better!

[BlondKnight]

anyone saved the trailer of this "show"? I would love to watch CG tears

[kefru177]

anyone saved the trailer of this "show"? I would love to watch CG tears

Does not look like it. Only a clip remains. I hear that the original trailer was 10 minutes but that source may have been mistaken.

That thread about the SS Honour Rings was remarkable, it showed that good fakes were being produced and attempting to be passed off as original, but also note how many of the posters on that thread have been expelled or banned.

Excluding CG, it took years and a fake passport for him to be banned

[Mil-Archive]

That thread about the SS Honour Rings was remarkable, it showed that good fakes were being produced and attempting to be passed off as original, but also note how many of the posters on that thread have been expelled or banned.

Excluding CG, it took years and a fake passport for him to be banned

That is exactly what I was thinking too as I was reading it. That thread is a must-read in my opinion.

It is shocking to realise how many of the good guys were expelled in the intervening years while CG Remained. It also seemed that some moderators were 100% up to speed on this but somehow CG remained for another 5 yrs. I'd have to guess that they were overruled on the subject.

[alexanderautogr]

This is important.

The letter written by the four most prestigious anthropological and archaeological organizations to National Geographic concerning "Nazi War Diggers". It is positive, informative, educational, and will jibe with the aims of collectors and responsible detectorists.

http://www.aaanet.org/issues/policy-...ar-Diggers.pdf

[Thorsten B.]

So Squirrel Face and his gang are locked now?

[alexanderautogr]

So Squirrel Face and his gang are locked now?

If you mean that the show will now air in any form at all...I very much doubt it.

[Johnny R]

This is important.

The letter written by the four most prestigious anthropological and archaeological organizations to National Geographic concerning "Nazi War Diggers". It is positive, informative, educational, and will jibe with the aims of collectors and responsible detectorists.

http://www.aaanet.org/issues/policy-...ar-Diggers.pdf

I posted this in 358 and was involved in it being written.

[Johnny R]

If you mean that the show will now air in any form at all...I very much doubt it.

I imagine the producers spent a ton of money on it and will most likely edit it and try to air it in a different light. There was another "reality" show called "Chasing Mummies" that was aired and had criticism like this but less and horrible reviews so the first shows were pulled and two professional archaeologists were brought in. My friend was one of the two people. They re-shot scenes, shot new footage and salvaged what they could.

[alexanderautogr]

I posted this in 358 and was involved in it being written.

I'm sorry - I didn't notice that in the blizzard of messages on this post.

Thanks very much for your contribution. The letter is excellent and if Nat Geo takes heed, it will do a world of good.

Bill P.

[Johnny R]

I'm sorry - I didn't notice that in the blizzard of messages on this post.

Thanks very much for your contribution. The letter is excellent and if Nat Geo takes heed, it will do a world of good.

Bill P.

No worries, when you see them using that specific letterhead with all of the professional organizations you know someone is in deep doo-doo. They use that for letters to heads of State and the UN etc.

[Shenkursk]

This excellent video was posted on the US Militaria Forum - it is a discussion of the Nazi War Diggers by professional archaeologists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiqYTMNo7Ow

Lots of great information in here, but most important to me is the revelation that true experts with field experience in battlefield archaeology WERE called upon by the producers. The gentleman interviewed in this webisode states that they discussed all of the important issues, best practices, ethical guidelines, etc., and in the end when the promotional video was posted it became quite clear that all of that was just completely ignored.

From what we have seen in the promotional material, it is indeed clear that this is at best epic buffoonery, disrespectful of fallen soldiers, and a public relations time bomb that could easily do great harm to the hobby of collecting militaria and the profession of archaeology. HOWEVER... I know that I am setting myself up for a shower of sharp sticks and rotten fruit, but must confess that I really do not place the blame for this on Craig or any of the other 'diggers' in the series.

I know Craig is Craig, with all that entails, and this alone brings a strong reaction from many, especially here on the WAF. A previous poster has appropriately asked: "Would you be quite so upset if it was 'Joe Schmo' doing this?" I think that is a legitimate question, and for me anyway the answer is yes.

When presented with an opportunity to star in a new television program, excavating remains and relics in Eastern Europe, I would bet the farm that each of these people had visions of themselves as some sort of epic Indiana Jones figure, and likely gave little if any thought to the idea "Am I really qualified to do this?" They either trusted that the producers knew what they were doing, or were so wrapped up in the grand opportunity that they did not consider it much if at all. I'm not throwing stones here - it's human nature. We all like to think of ourselves as the one who could safely land the plane if the pilot unexpectedly assumed room temperature, and it is very plausible that these four found themselves in way over their heads without a clue, probably right up until the controversy broke last week. That's not offered as a defense of any of them, just one theory of how this scenario could likely have developed.

The fact that the production team had been quite thoroughly informed of what was required for ethical and professional battlefield archaeology and elected to willfully ignore pretty much all of those guidelines for whatever reason (expedience and drama, most likely) makes them bad guy #1 on my list.

This is sort of like inviting the cast of Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo to star in a new series where they will dive for sunken treasure in the Caribbean. Would they immediately agree and show up without ever before having seen a scuba rig? You bet. Would it be ethical of the production crew to let them dive on a wreck with -0- experience? No way.

The really sad thing is that just as the two professionals state in the video linked above, proper exploration of battlefields via archaeology WOULD be outstanding television. Proper removal, identification, and repatriation of remains would as well, and is also a truly moving and honorable task. Unfortunately the production company had an opportunity to do something quite good, but instead opted for this sensationalized goat-roping expedition, nothing but a caricature of battlefield archaeology.

Kudos to everyone here and in the archaeology community who are continuing their efforts to ensure that this production remains properly buried.