Craig Gottlieb & "Nazi War Diggers"

[Johnny R]

Posing like they just shot a trophy deer. Pretty disgusting.

[Hoss]

I will be asking the forum owner and moderators to stop the sales and discussion of all ground dug military relics. I think this should be done immediately because of the outrage over non professional archaelogist diggers who are not sanctioned by the 4 most prestigeous professional organizations. I hope all of you outraged collectors will be right behind me in this effort.

Bob Hritz

You got to be kidding right? I hope so..

Dam it Bob you're missing the point...again. I guess thats the answer for people who can't grasp the problem...ban it ban everything associated with it.

Eric

[Willi Z.]

Quote:

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by alexanderautogr
If you mean that the show will now air in any form at all...I very much doubt it.







</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




Just wait...it's not over yet!!

Redux...The Nazi War Diggers!!!

Ah, much more discreet fame and fortune hunters!

Much better than trying to look like tough hardened (pretend hombres) hunters posing with their freshly killed trophy. This is the point so many of the "smoke and mirrors" defenders seem to conveniently miss. It is how they are selling themselves to impress the simple-minded audiences they are targeting. At the expense of the hobby and its future.

And yes I would support a ban on selling ground dug items, especially from the "wild east." I have always detested that practice as it enables the worst conduct.

I will also say alot of the nasty personal comments are clouding the issue, diluting the message, and will ultimately undermine any noble effort. As well as improper forum conduct (as a matter of principle), though this is not my section.

[Simon O.]

and WWII relics are not the only ground dug items to be openly sold by a long chalk. Go on to e-bay and look up 'uncleaned Roman coins' you'll find them by the thousand (they're faked as well by the way)

[Heer Flak]

That posed picture would make a great dart board. Of course it would have to be the one without the sacks on their heads.

[Jo Rivett]

I will be asking the forum owner and moderators to stop the sales and discussion of all ground dug military relics.
Bob Hritz

Will you be going after the ground dug dealers who advertise on this forum as well? If you are, then you could start here ► http://www.relictsshop.com/

[Bob Hritz]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=black+diggers

[Hoss]

Bob Hritz
Please watch this vid to the end NG want 'entertainment' this isn't to the uninterested it holds no commercial value, zero.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y7G0dfENiw

Eric

[PAB]

Besides Simon and Jean, not many relic diggers collector's, buyers or sellers have spoke up to defend the action. Afraid to get thrashed in this thread, by keeping a low profile? And letting the anti ground dug relic loud mouths that are calling for the ground dug forum to be removed even doesn't create a stir?

I collect battlefield relics of which some might be ground dug and not afraid to say it. If I was living in Europe I would be finding my own, but since I can't I'll make do with buying them. Why do I like relics, well it's because they are a part of history. Something about finding relics from a certain location from a place in time is fasinating. And because I have several generations that were involved in both world wars. Now as pointed out most relics are surface battle discards, WW2 era trash dumps, pow camps etc. As some of the Youtube videos show there are organized groups looking for burial spots for 2 reasons. Find the fallen for identification and the recovery of relics. Much of East Europe has high unemployment and to pay people to do this by the government or their payment is in the sale of relics found with remains should be considered ok. A very few examples are the creeps that take the relics and kick the bones back into the hole and tell know one. Those must be stopped.

So I call out to people to keep an open mind about this. YEs CG is a fool, yes NG didn't do their homework before putting out that 10 minute trailer showing the lack of respect for the dead. But lets be fair, I rather see remains and the items dug up and found in the proper way also. And I want the fallen soldiers to be found and the historical relics to be recovered then all just left to rot and rust forever.

Now we know why you have been so sympathetic to CG and the grave diggers.

[Seigfried]

and WWII relics are not the only ground dug items to be openly sold by a long chalk. Go on to e-bay and look up 'uncleaned Roman coins'

The trouble is Simon, we are not talking about events from 1500-2000 years ago but about events from 70 years ago, still in living memory, and for some members here the situation is very personal as they lost relatives on the Eastern Front. You are an ex-Booty, what would you say if people were grave digging in the Falklands?

[Chris Liontass]

Honestly I don't think it is a question of relics. As long as there has been history, people have been interested in finding relics. I myself have pieces of a picklehaube found on the Verdun battlefield given to me by a friend. Digging for a relic, seeing a relic, or just old fashioned metal detecting is a fun hobby.

This however is the opposite of that. This is focusing on human remains. I've seen shows where they professionally exhume bodies found from Napoleonic times, to WW2. There is always a trained archeologist, and the focus is on the history. Items are laid out with respect, and catalogued by a professional. There is always someone there from the respective countries to relieve the "digger" of the personal effects and the human remains. As remains are exhumed along with artifacts, there main focus of the story is to relate such artifacts to the soldiers. Who were they, what did they do, what was life like in 17,18, 19, 20th century armies. I remember one where they showed the broken teeth on a skull corresponding to the pipe the French soldier must have used. It was interesting, and it was done in a forensics lab....not on a tarp in the swamp.

I don't see any of this with the current program. Even the title is offensive. If they had called it something like, " the lost men of WW2", or "the lost" I think people would have been interested. Even the title gives away what they are trying to do. And the photo next to the dead body is about as un ceremonial as it can be. If this show would have been done right, it would have been a fantastic idea. Bring the bodies of the soldiers home with full military honors. But there are already big groups on the German and Russian side who do this. Why were they not contacted and Craig could have just interviewed them and explained any relics found. Why did a new crew have to do this, with no affiliation to any kind of human remains recovery group.

This isn't about digging for relics, or finding fossils, or anything innocent.

[VtwinVince]

Members of my family were killed on the Russian Front and remain missing. I find the notion that an asshole such as Gottlieb would be looting the graves of my relatives, frankly, vomit-inducing.

[Kelly w]

Now we know why you have been so sympathetic to CG and the grave diggers.

Now that's uncalled for. CG no, NG program of what was shown so far no, for grave digging yes under proper circumstances.

[Kelly w]

This thread is at present now going nowhere, some just don't want to consider any sort of logic or others points of view.

[Mil-Archive]

Members of my family were killed on the Russian Front and remain missing. I find the notion that an asshole such as Gottlieb would be looting the graves of my relatives, frankly, vomit-inducing.

I think that post right there perfectly sums it all up.