Debunking the M1 Garand "Ping" Myth

[bigschuss]

I guess this goes under living history? I was watching the History Channel (or maybe Discovery?) over the weekend and there was a show about the Top 10 infantry weapons of all time. As usual, they had that big bald guy giving his theories and opinions...I think he is the currator for the West Point museum?
Anyway, he mentioned that the one drawback to the M1 Garand was the loud "ping" it made when the en-bloc clip was ejected after the 8th round was fired. He said that it basicaly told the Germans "hey, I'm out of ammo" and he went on to describe that Germans learned to recognize this sound and would "charge" after they heard that sound.

What B.S., and from an "expert" like this.

Almost unbelievably he also went on to say that Americans would then have a 9th round handy, so that when the clip ejected and the germans charged, they would quickly hand load a 9th round and kill the German.

This ranks up there with the myth that Mister Rogers was a tattoed Marine Corps sniper in Vietnam.

Intellectual vomit! This is just pure crap that has somehow made it's way into accepted WWII lore.

I've submitted this one to Mythbusters, and I would put money that they bust it! You cannot hear the ping of the M1 Garand clip being ejected in the din of battle at average distances of WWII combat. That's my position, IMHO.

What say you?

PING!!!!

[Admiraal]

I would love to see that on Mythbusters
I know the guy with the big mustage has an M1, he used it many times before.
So it won't be hard to test it out!

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I don't think it's a myth. I think you related it as an over simplification. In certain conditions the Germans might hear it. Small unit battles, 3 or 4 guys or one on one.
I have an MI you can hear it from some distance.

W.

[can]

Don't know for sure about the ping noise thing but a WW2 Vet told me if they fired a few shots of the eight and had time i.e the contact was over they would reload with a fresh clip. No one would let it go dry if they could avoid it.

[DennyB]

I suppose that it is possible in theory but I doubt that it actually ever happened in practice. I would say that most fire fights didn't happen in so close that you could actually hear the "pling" if someone was shooting at you. Your hearing would be somewhat traumatized and you would hear ringing most likely if there was firing all around you and you were not wearing hearing protection. Plus the excitement of being shot at might raise your blood pressure to where the ringing would increase too.
I am no expert, just giving my opinion on the matter.
Denny

[bigschuss]

I suppose that it is possible in theory but I doubt that it actually ever happened in practice. I would say that most fire fights didn't happen in so close that you could actually hear the "pling" if someone was shooting at you. Your hearing would be somewhat traumatized and you would hear ringing most likely if there was firing all around you and you were not wearing hearing protection. Plus the excitement of being shot at might raise your blood pressure to where the ringing would increase too.
I am no expert, just giving my opinion on the matter.
Denny

I completely agree. Well said.

W., I was just relaying exactly what the expert said.

I shoot M1 Garands regulary in matches and for pleasure. In the din of combat, with no ear protection, with your buddies firing their K98's 2 feet from your ear, with the adrenaline and the confusion, and at distances of 100 meters and beyond...you can not hear the ping IMHO.

Yes, in the one instance that a German was on one side of a hay stack, and a G.I. on the other side maybe the German heard the ping and charged. But it certainly didn't happen to the degree that has been passed on by these experts. No way...

[Don D.]

Probably more likly a bit of paranioa on the part of GIs.

[Rylan]

Well I have heard this from many people before. What I never understood was... just because one guy is out of ammo and there is a PING, are the guys around him not going to shoot any enemy soldier that tries to make their move? Depending on how far away you are I would believe you could hear the ping, but unless it is a 1 on 1 sort of combat, I don't think the PING sound would make much of a difference.

[Jeff V]

These television "experts" spout off such nonsense regularly. Makes one wonder if they have actually fired any of the weopons they talk about or if they are rehashing the same crap written in a decades old Small Arms Of The World book.
best wishes,
jeff

[bigschuss]

I've been thinking about how to test this scientifically just like mythbusters would do? The basic questions this "myth" brings up are:

1) what is the minimum downrange distance a human can detect the ping (if at all)?
2) what percent of actual combat took place at that distance?
3) and as Rylan brings up, even if you can hear the ping, would a soldier then charge?

I'm convinced it's just an urban myth. But I sure would like to test this myself somehow????

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I completely agree. Well said.

W., I was just relaying exactly what the expert said.

I shoot M1 Garands regulary in matches and for pleasure. In the din of combat, with no ear protection, with your buddies firing their K98's 2 feet from your ear, with the adrenaline and the confusion, and at distances of 100 meters and beyond...you can not hear the ping IMHO.

Yes, in the one instance that a German was on one side of a hay stack, and a G.I. on the other side maybe the German heard the ping and charged. But it certainly didn't happen to the degree that has been passed on by these experts. No way...

I doubt it was on a large scale too but who are the experts?

W.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

Of course the Germans would not charge a line of US troops over a Ping. A single fox hole, they hear two pings. I'd bet they would.

W

[SurvivingPanzer]

I've been thinking about how to test this scientifically just like mythbusters would do? The basic questions this "myth" brings up are:

1) what is the minimum downrange distance a human can detect the ping (if at all)?
2) what percent of actual combat took place at that distance?
3) and as Rylan brings up, even if you can hear the ping, would a soldier then charge?

I'm convinced it's just an urban myth. But I sure would like to test this myself somehow????

Shot an M1 once. It was a hell of ping, almost as loud as a shot but then again my ear was right there. I have no doubt that on more than one occasion a fanatic German rushed on a ping. Close quarters, limited personnel for sure. House to house, not field to field. IDT any German, no matter how fanatical, would rush in numbers a 100-150 yards on a ping, but if your in a fire fight with a guy in the next hallway and they are eight feet away.........

welll..........

Its a distinct possibility that a ping could cause an eneny to close those two yards and try to give you a rifle butt.

[leibermuster]

I have never been in real combat, but I am a German ww2 reenactor. When we fight you can hear a distinct ping sometimes when there is no other firing going on. I have talked to US reenactors about this. Sometimes they will use an empty clip to reproduce the sound and try and trick you into thinking they are empty. I suspect that the Germans would not attack a position just because they think one soldier needs to reload, it is unlikely that every GI would be empty at the same time.

[r_hufschmied]

Ahum ...

The "big bald guy" is Dr. William Atwater, former curator/director at the US Army Ordnance Museum at APG in Maryland. A US Marine Corps Captain (retired) and Vietnam War veteran, recipient of the Purple Heart, Navy Commendation Medal, and a Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. He holds a MA and PhD in military history from Duke Uni.

Even though often dramatized somewhat for effect I trust this mans expertize ahead of most, not to say all, other "TV-experts".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Atwater