Debunking the M1 Garand "Ping" Myth

[bigschuss]

I also think we are thinking about two completely different scenarios..... you speak of hearing the "PING" in a full fledged battle. I think of hearing the "PING" on a thin defensive line and the enemy is trying to probe your defenses at night. The enemy tests your perimeter..... you react by firing at their sounds giving away you position.... now they know you are green. They continue waiting for the "PING" as the signal to rush your slit trench. If your buddy is smart enough to cover you the attack will most likely fail.... but if he is not working with you.... the enemy will prevail this night.

Agreed. But Atwater et al describe the scenario as if it was a common thing...that it was common for Germans to rush the sound of the PING. That's my whole point. This is nonsense.

I don't disagree that it probably occured under some, rare occurences under just the right conditions. I just disagree with Atwater's statements to the effect that one of the drawbacks of the M1 Garand was the loud PING it made that revealed an empty weapon and the enemy would charge the position. This is hyperbolic nonsense. It's like saying one of the drawbacks of the F-15 was that it sometimes crashed.

Yet, Average Joe History Channel Watcher will hear this and tell 10 friends and they tell 10 friends and before you know it Mr. Rogers was Marine Corps sniper in WWII who used a custom made 9 shot, PING-less M1 Garand to deceive the naive Germans. And Hitler was Jewish. And the Germans used wood bullets. And Mikey from Life Cereal died while eating Pop Rocks and Coke. And on and on with lore, half-tuths, and rumors.

The one guy below posted that in an after battle report it was reported that G.I.s could get Germans to charge by simply tossing an en-bloc clip in the air. My God!?! As if the Germans were nothing bunch of Wild Turkeys that would naively respond with a few yelps and get their heads blown off. Notwithstanding the fact that a clip thrown in the air doesn't even make the PING! He then responded "for the record" that the noise is made by the clip and the case colliding. Well, throwing a clip in the air doesn't get you the ping either....so that begins to make one wonder about the credibility of the after action report.

I'm starting to get half-tempted to go out and do a little experimenting myself....let's see, where can I get some Pop Rocks?

[101combatvet]

I think I now recall Atwater's telling of this on the History Channel.... I didn't seem to take it that it was a common occurrence... but that's just me.... maybe I had already made up my mind years before. Also, remember that he had no control over the production and due to the editing of the video what he said before or after could have been cut. With out seeing the uncut video I wouldn't draw the conclusion that he is in total error..... matter of fact I think he is actually one of the most knowledgeable scholars I have ever met... he is very well spoken although I don't believe the interviews were conducted on the cuff but knowing him they could have been. I have also interviewed Germans that fought during the war.... and to my surprise they have often spoke of the vulnerability of the enemy. They trained this way.... find a weak link and exploit it. Watching how the enemy reacts can tell you a lot about how they fight.

Trust me... I like to de-bunk as much as the next guy. In my opinion I think it could have happened under certain circumstances.... like a night attack on a perimeter or while clearing rooms in house to house fighting. If the "PING" was the only drawback I certainly could have lived with it. I think the real test should be how fast someone could rush your fighting position from the other side of a hedgerow at night while you are reloading a new clip.

Agreed. But Atwater et al describe the scenario as if it was a common thing...that it was common for Germans to rush the sound of the PING. That's my whole point. This is nonsense.

I don't disagree that it probably occured under some, rare occurences under just the right conditions. I just disagree with Atwater's statements to the effect that one of the drawbacks of the M1 Garand was the loud PING it made that revealed an empty weapon and the enemy would charge the position. This is hyperbolic nonsense. It's like saying one of the drawbacks of the F-15 was that it sometimes crashed.

Yet, Average Joe History Channel Watcher will hear this and tell 10 friends and they tell 10 friends and before you know it Mr. Rogers was Marine Corps sniper in WWII who used a custom made 9 shot, PING-less M1 Garand to deceive the naive Germans. And Hitler was Jewish. And the Germans used wood bullets. And Mikey from Life Cereal died while eating Pop Rocks and Coke. And on and on with lore, half-tuths, and rumors.

The one guy below posted that in an after battle report it was reported that G.I.s could get Germans to charge by simply tossing an en-bloc clip in the air. My God!?! As if the Germans were nothing bunch of Wild Turkeys that would naively respond with a few yelps and get their heads blown off. Notwithstanding the fact that a clip thrown in the air doesn't even make the PING! He then responded "for the record" that the noise is made by the clip and the case colliding. Well, throwing a clip in the air doesn't get you the ping either....so that begins to make one wonder about the credibility of the after action report.

I'm starting to get half-tempted to go out and do a little experimenting myself....let's see, where can I get some Pop Rocks?

[bigschuss]

I think the real test should be how fast someone could rush your fighting position from the other side of a hedgerow at night while you are reloading a new clip.

Yes! Even you can hear a ping, and even if it was common to charge the G.I.'s, how close would you have to be to charge in time before the next en-bloc clip was loaded? I'm guessing 7 to 8 seconds is what you'd have for a well trained G.I. to remove a clip from his cartridge belt, load it in, and slap the bolt forward.

One more thing to test..

[DennyB]

If you are within "Pling-Hearing" range, you are darn sure within hand grenade range.

[101combatvet]

Yes.... but try it after not sleeping for a few nights while being cold and damp, hungry, filthy, don't forget muscle fatigue, and at night.

Yes! Even you can hear a ping, and even if it was common to charge the G.I.'s, how close would you have to be to charge in time before the next en-bloc clip was loaded? I'm guessing 7 to 8 seconds is what you'd have for a well trained G.I. to remove a clip from his cartridge belt, load it in, and slap the bolt forward.

One more thing to test..

[bigschuss]

Yes.... but try it after not sleeping for a few nights while being cold and damp, hungry, filthy, don't forget muscle fatigue, and at night.

I'll leave that part to the reenactors!

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I'll leave that part to the reenactors!

Guys in Korea had trouble just pulling the trigger some days. I am sure that was a problem on occasion in Europe as well.

W.

[juoneen]

I have spoken with many vets, and in korea , and ww2...said they worked together when firing as a team staggered with garands . When the one guys garand got to the last round, and pinged, while he reloaded or paused, the team would wait till the enemy would realize the GI was out, and when the ejecting clip drew fire ...fire back.. as soon as the ping drew fire from the enemy. The other fully loaded members of the team .. would be trained on the fire back response. Many times the other members of the team would nail the enemy with this strategy. And yes you can hear a garand from quite a distance.

[bigschuss]

I have spoken with many vets, and in korea , and ww2...said they worked together when firing as a team staggered with garands . When the one guys garand got to the last round, and pinged, while he reloaded or paused, the team would wait till the enemy would realize the GI was out, and when the ejecting clip drew fire ...fire back.. as soon as the ping drew fire from the enemy. The other fully loaded members of the team .. would be trained on the fire back response. Many times the other members of the team would nail the enemy with this strategy. And yes you can hear a garand from quite a distance.

This makes sense. Thanks for sharing that.

When you say "yes, you can hear a Garand from quite a distance"...

Do you mean the shot, or the Ping? If the PING, how do you know? Have you ever been downrange of a live M1 Garand firing M2 ball?

[leibermuster]

This makes sense. Thanks for sharing that.

When you say "yes, you can hear a Garand from quite a distance"...

Do you mean the shot, or the Ping? If the PING, how do you know? Have you ever been downrange of a live M1 Garand firing M2 ball?

I have been downrange of Garands being shot, and yes you can hear them for quite a distance sometimes. It is not that they are loud so much as that they have a very distinct pitch.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I have been downrange of Garands being shot, and yes you can hear them for quite a distance sometimes. It is not that they are loud so much as that they have a very distinct pitch.

The pitch and the frequency. This audible high pitch sound would tend to stick out even when hearing has been impaired by weapons going off. With the adrenaline rush combined with the fact that your hearing becomes more acutely focused when it is being overloaded with loud noise I can see how the ping may still be audible under some combat situations even with weapons going off. It all just depends on what is going off and when in relation to the pings.

W.

[bigschuss]

I have been downrange of Garands being shot, and yes you can hear them for quite a distance sometimes. It is not that they are loud so much as that they have a very distinct pitch.

Interesting. Makes sense. Thanks.

[nzef1940]

My hearing is not what it used to be, but I always hear the 'ping' loud and clear on the range and from a good distance, I agree re the 'pitch' comment.

[Jean-Loup]

If the shooter can hear the ping over the gunshot noise, it seems obvious that somebody further away can also hear the ping over the gunshot noise!

[bigschuss]

If the shooter can hear the ping over the gunshot noise, it seems obvious that somebody further away can also hear the ping over the gunshot noise!

The ping comes AFTER the report of the gunshot. Not until after the round is fired and the case ejected does the en-bloc clip then get ejected with the ping. It's not simultaneous. So, obviously a shooter can hear both the shot and the ping. The ping is going off right by his ear, AFTER the shot.