Debunking the M1 Garand "Ping" Myth

[busterz111]

The ping from what I have just seen on a few You tube shoots is when the Clip hits the Ground,Not audible enough to notice it leaving the weapon.There is a clip from Band of Brothers and THEY are pinging when they exit the weapon but thats Hollywood Sound effects.If you in the Grass and Mud Doubt you would here the residual Ping.

[bigschuss]

Ahum ...

The "big bald guy" is Dr. William Atwater, former curator/director at the US Army Ordnance Museum at APG in Maryland. A US Marine Corps Captain (retired) and Vietnam War veteran, recipient of the Purple Heart, Navy Commendation Medal, and a Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. He holds a MA and PhD in military history from Duke Uni.

Even though often dramatized somewhat for effect I trust this mans expertize ahead of most, not to say all, other "TV-experts".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Atwater

Better clear that bug in your throat...

I didn't begrudge the man or his accoplishments, just what he was saying.

I am a combat vet of Desert Storm. I have been very close to the sounds of war. And, as I stated, I shoot M1 Garands regularly, both in match and for pleasure. So, I'm not speaking off the cuff here.

They do indeed make a ping when he en-bloc clip is ejected, and it is not from the sound of the clip hitting the ground. And I've been caught off guard without my hearing protection when other shooters fire their weapons. The sound is deafening.

My problem is when stories like this...plausible under very rare conditions....make it onto national television where the masses see it and then perpetuate it themselves without really thinking about it.

It makes a great story, doesn't it? Kind of like Mister Rogers as Marine Corps sniper. But after all, it is Hollywood. And Atwater, regardless of al his degrees and medals, was hired by Hollywood to entertain and to provide good ratings.

I don't believe this story. I think it's just lore....kind of like Pop Rocks and Coke.

[r_hufschmied]

Better clear that bug in your throat...

I didn't begrudge the man or his accoplishments, just what he was saying.

I am a combat vet of Desert Storm. I have been very close to the sounds of war. And, as I stated, I shoot M1 Garands regularly, both in match and for pleasure. So, I'm not speaking off the cuff here.

They do indeed make a ping when he en-bloc clip is ejected, and it is not from the sound of the clip hitting the ground. And I've been caught off guard without my hearing protection when other shooters fire their weapons. The sound is deafening.

My problem is when stories like this...plausible under very rare conditions....make it onto national television where the masses see it and then perpetuate it themselves without really thinking about it.

It makes a great story, doesn't it? Kind of like Mister Rogers as Marine Corps sniper. But after all, it is Hollywood. And Atwater, regardless of al his degrees and medals, was hired by Hollywood to entertain and to provide good ratings.

I don't believe this story. I think it's just lore....kind of like Pop Rocks and Coke.

Ok, bug cleared, no offense.

I agree that the "drama" is unnecessary as it helps perpetuate a near myth. I also agree that in any other situation other than possibly a 1 to 1 shot-out the "ping" is a non-factor drenched by the other sounds of war.

I only reacted cause I have the greatest respect for Mr. Atwater, again no offense.

[Bill Gaynor]

Not saying this could not have happened, it would have been a very rare circumstance. It's just that it is made to sound by Dr. Atwater that this was something that was happening in an on going basis. I have never heard of the gun getting much in the way of complaints, to the contrary it was rated as one of the best combat weapons. If the gun were getting alot of soldiers killed because of the "ping" on clip ejection there would have been a general outcry.
Talking to my dad and my friends fathers I have never heard a complaint from one or that the gun got a buddy of theirs killed because of this annoying ping. Even if you heard the ping and you were an enemy soldier facing a man who knows how to use this gun how many steps do you think you will get before he reloads that clip and you are facing down the barrel of an 8 round 30-06 semi auto rifle. Not to mention this man more than likely has fellow soldiers about. The Japanese did not care one way or the other, they would make bonzai charges into machine gun fire, don't think they cared about a ping.
I have to give the soap box to bigschuss on this one. I can only add Hollywood, Hollywood go back reporting on Paris Hiltons meaningless life.

[MikeP]

Using words like "never" or "always" in regards to combat is an exercise in futility.

[Lon]

The M1 Garand was the rifle in use when I was in the military in the late 50's and early 60's and yes it does have a very audible and distinctive ping after the 8th round. I don't think this would give the enemy much of an advantage since a fresh clip of 8 could be loaded in about 1.5 seconds. Unless an attacker was 10 feet away, they would be sitting ducks.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

Unless you got "M-1 thumb" My dad was in and was issued a grand as well. He is missing his thumb and sometimes jokes about it and his M-1

W.

[herrzark]

The M1 Garand was the rifle in use when I was in the military in the late 50's and early 60's and yes it does have a very audible and distinctive ping after the 8th round. I don't think this would give the enemy much of an advantage since a fresh clip of 8 could be loaded in about 1.5 seconds. Unless an attacker was 10 feet away, they would be sitting ducks.

i agree.i have also used a M1 and i about 1,5 sec. you can load a fresh clip...or in 5 sec. if you are to slow....not more

[PlaceOfBayonets]

Never been in combat but aint 5 seconds in real combat a long time? Seems to me you'd have to be well drilled in loading the M1 grand to not lose focus when you hear the ping go off and you know the Waffen SS man is right around the hedgerow? Bout as difficult under stress as loading an AK mag I'd imagine?

What say ye Vets?

W.

[MP43SNIPER]

Better clear that bug in your throat...

I didn't begrudge the man or his accoplishments, just what he was saying.

I am a combat vet of Desert Storm. I have been very close to the sounds of war. And, as I stated, I shoot M1 Garands regularly, both in match and for pleasure. So, I'm not speaking off the cuff here.

They do indeed make a ping when he en-bloc clip is ejected, and it is not from the sound of the clip hitting the ground. And I've been caught off guard without my hearing protection when other shooters fire their weapons. The sound is deafening.

My problem is when stories like this...plausible under very rare conditions....make it onto national television where the masses see it and then perpetuate it themselves without really thinking about it.

It makes a great story, doesn't it? Kind of like Mister Rogers as Marine Corps sniper. But after all, it is Hollywood. And Atwater, regardless of al his degrees and medals, was hired by Hollywood to entertain and to provide good ratings.

I don't believe this story. I think it's just lore....kind of like Pop Rocks and Coke.

Well surely you do remember saying "theories and opinions" don't you? Sure sounded in your first post like "who in the hell does this fat effer think he is?". Well now you know he served his country with honor and deserves your respect. I agree the story of the pinging clips may be embellished but we will never really know what happened during the war. All I know is that my Garand makes that sound when it ejects a clip, and by the time you get out of your foxhole and start your charge towards me I can have another one loaded up and ready to go. Nuff said.

Craig

[jugendkrieger]

As a German world war 2 reenactor I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the "ping" is audible, as to what range I can not say, But in a fairly heavy firefight (German gruppe engaging an American squad) It was audible, and they were more than 50 yards away. It is also a tell on which weapon is used, the sounds of a bolt action and the ping of an empty Garand are very audible. Any German soldier that charges on a ping is both a crazy one and more often than not a dead one very shortly there after.

[C. Betz]

Combat

"Never been in combat but aint 5 seconds in real combat a long time? Seems to me you'd have to be well drilled in loading the M1 grand to not lose focus when you hear the ping go off and you know the Waffen SS man is right around the hedgerow? Bout as difficult under stress as loading an AK mag I'd imagine?"

What say ye Vets?

Apples to oranges (AK v. M-1 Garand). What it comes down to is your training, experienced gained, and often pure luck. You're either 1st place: Alive. Or 2nd place: Dead. AK mags are inserted from the bottom of the receiver, the M-1 is loaded from the top. You would be amazed at how many things are done automatically in a combat situation. As for the "Waffen-SS man around the hedgerow", you don't care what branch of the service your enemy is in. Your focus is to kill him by any means available before he kills you.

And it is Garand, not grand.

Charles Betz

[PlaceOfBayonets]

"Never been in combat but aint 5 seconds in real combat a long time? Seems to me you'd have to be well drilled in loading the M1 grand to not lose focus when you hear the ping go off and you know the Waffen SS man is right around the hedgerow? Bout as difficult under stress as loading an AK mag I'd imagine?"

What say ye Vets?

Apples to oranges (AK v. M-1 Garand). What it comes down to is your training, experienced gained, and often pure luck. You're either 1st place: Alive. Or 2nd place: Dead. AK mags are inserted from the bottom of the receiver, the M-1 is loaded from the top. You would be amazed at how many things are done automatically in a combat situation. As for the "Waffen-SS man around the hedgerow", you don't care what branch of the service your enemy is in. Your focus is to kill him by any means available before he kills you.

And it is Garand, not grand.

Charles Betz

The SS man behind the hedgerow., or any other uniform, NO kidding.....


While the AK and M1 are not the same it's true that both take a little extra time and training loading wise to learn well and be able to re load them in combat conditions and get it right. There is M1 thumb to consider in one and if you cock the AK mag in wrong and it's easy to do the round will not feed.

That was my point about both rifles. If you've loaded an AK vs. an AR 15 you know what I mean. You rock the AK mag back and click it into place as opposed to just jamming the AR-15 mag straight up. NOt much room for error with the AR-15.

W.

[bigschuss]

As a German world war 2 reenactor I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the "ping" is audible, as to what range I can not say, But in a fairly heavy firefight (German gruppe engaging an American squad) It was audible, and they were more than 50 yards away. It is also a tell on which weapon is used, the sounds of a bolt action and the ping of an empty Garand are very audible. Any German soldier that charges on a ping is both a crazy one and more often than not a dead one very shortly there after.

I'm not trying to be anti-reenacting, but I don't think it's a fair arguement to use reenacting "combat experience" as evidence. It's just not real.

For one, do you guys use M2 ball in your Garands? To be downrange of an M1 Garand at a distance of 50 meters and hear the "ping" over the report of M2 Ball is, IMHO, impossible. If you hear the ping over the blanks, that's one thing.

But to be fair, I know nothing about reenacting, and I am curious to know more. I doubt you guys are using a cartridge that is louder than M2 ball. Am I wrong? And I doubt the 8mm blanks you use are louder than an actual 8mm cartridge. Ditto for every other weapon on the "battlefield."

[herrzark]

Never been in combat but aint 5 seconds in real combat a long time? Seems to me you'd have to be well drilled in loading the M1 grand to not lose focus when you hear the ping go off and you know the Waffen SS man is right around the hedgerow? Bout as difficult under stress as loading an AK mag I'd imagine?

What say ye Vets?

W.

i tried it only in trainning.but of course when you are in combat and you are experienced like the ss 5 sec are to much