Untouched SS officer tunic and grouping

[Graham G]

Buttons replaced-- when he went to a frontline unit, perhaps he decided to opt for them, rather than the silver?

Pips-- they're poked through the collar, so quite easy to remove. They fall off, especially in combat.

Everything else screams that this is the same bluse. Of course, there's absolutely no way to know when these changes were made, but there's a pretty good chance they're wartime, imo. Regardless, given the comparisons, I'd have no doubt that it's the same bluse, and probably untouched insignia since he last wore it.

Killer "been there" bluse with one of the best groupings I've ever seen.

[Robert H]

and dont forget to mention the blind visitors at Leipzigs fleamarket back then.

[cossack1648]

Could you please post a picture of that tunic without insignia or tabs to back up your rumors?

and dont forget to mention the blind visitors at Leipzigs fleamarket back then.

[Max Wünsche]

Seeing the comparisons from the period photos it is very much looking like the same tunic for me.

[Robert H]

You can talk to many EU collector about its truth!
And tailor work in detail is easy for German or UK pros, even with your shown comparism. Amen for this story, enjoy the group its a nice group!

[BrianK]

and dont forget to mention the blind visitors at Leipzigs fleamarket back then.

I must be blind because I don't see any evidence that it's fake. 99% of SS cloth has less back-up than this.

[Zauberflöte]

Interesting psychological experience I must say. Only one single person is now questioning - publically- this tunic whereas there are 8 pages of positive feedback. It is this persons good right to remain sceptical but somehow we find it necessary to keep responding. I would say, let it be unless new facts are delivered.

[Robert H]

bin

I must be blind because I don't see any evidence that it's fake. 99% of SS cloth has less back-up than this.

To be very clear BrianK, no one ever called it out FAKE.
Badges and tunic are original, but together after 2007.

Just ask other EU collectors if they have the guts to jump in honestly.

Safest way is always calculate tunic and badges, it its a pure minefield and offen impossible to judge. That has nothing to do with blindness. Have you seen original cloth balls sales, and who has so much interest to get rolled cloth balls or original garment? What happen with all it you can propably imagne your self. But some play the expert and know not much.

[cossack1648]

And some people wonder, why collectors don't post items like this on a forum anymore. I know now why they don't, and surely I won't post any of my other tunics as well.
You present a tunic with a period photo that enables you to analyze the tunic to millimeter details and it is still not enough. What else is needed? DNA test results, notary certified written statement from Frau Morgenbrod? No, Nothing will be enough because "some collectors" just know it is humped up.
So, these European tailoring pros can so perfectly reapply a collar tab that piping contour follows exactly like on the period photo. They didn't even miss such a detail like a little dimple in a rank tresse, but they couldn't align pips correctly? Probably the easiest thing to copy and first to compare. And also did they run out of silver buttons?


This grouping was presented here few times in the past and is known for a number of years and nobody questioned anything until now. Everybody liked it and now suddenly among some wide collecting circles it is known that it is not as presented. Why? Because it was offered for sale by an unknown collector and not by a major dealer?

[Ostprussenmann]

and some people wonder, why collectors don't post items like this on a forum anymore. I know now why they don't, and surely i won't post any of my other tunics as well.
You present a tunic with a period photo that enables you to analyze the tunic to millimeter details and it is still not enough. What else is needed? Dna test results, notary certified written statement from frau morgenbrod? No, nothing will be enough because "some collectors" just know it is humped up.
So, these european tailoring pros can so perfectly reapply a collar tab that piping contour follows exactly like on the period photo. They didn't even miss such a detail like a little dimple in a rank tresse, but they couldn't align pips correctly? Probably the easiest thing to copy and first to compare. And also did they run out of silver buttons?


This grouping was presented here few times in the past and is known for a number of years and nobody questioned anything until now. Everybody liked it and now suddenly among some wide collecting circles it is known that it is not as presented. Why? Because it was offered for sale by an unknown collector and not by a major dealer?

exactly!!!

[BrianK]

I'm no SS cloth expert, but I've been collecting TR for a while and seen these tunics offered for sale with the evidence presented. If I was a beginning collector, buying a SS tunic for the first time, I'd throw up my hands and say, "Forget about it, all these people say it's right as rain, a ton of absolutely perfect paperwork presented, and there are still a few people saying it might be this, it might be that, the buttons are wrong, this is too mixed up for me, I'll just stay away from SS tunics altogether, it's just too much for me."

[Der Texaner]

Just make note of the people who “don’t like it” and remember when you see posts by them in the future they are either jealous individuals, completely uninformed on militaria or just outright bitter little weenies.

[viva_giulio]

Some members have serious problems in understanding what they read. The tunic, the set (konvolut) is original and of the soldier.
As found, the voice of what E.M. done on tabs is quite common in Europe and reported by witness.
Imo the set value every cent asked, i love this set insignia or not.

[wolfslair]

exactly!!!

+ 1
Nailed it

[Mike C]

I am very reluctant to re-surface on WAF but, as the guy who sold this grouping to Jack, I feel the need to comment. I think I acquired this set around late 2007/early 2008. I shared it, in detail, on this and other forums. I think I received one or two posts that the tunic in the picture was not the one in the group (which, when you looked at the tunic in hand, was obviously not the case and likely simply the way someone's monitor presented the image of the photograph) but that was about it. Several other collectors had this set in hand and saw no issues. To me, this was simply an old police tunic, rebadged as a work tunic when Morgenbrod was undergoing training, which was then left behind when he went to the front to meet his destiny (as I remember, he was killed in action on the Mius front on the date of his wedding anniversary). Could his wife have then very carefully removed and thrown away the insignia (but kept the stripped tunic)? Perhaps - or could it, with documents and photos, been placed in a trunk in the attic?

I can't remember when I sold this set but I had it for several years. During that time not one European collector contacted me to say that the tunic was rebadged. Maybe they were trying to spare my feelings but I would have thought that someone would have made the effort to let me know.


Jack - if your sale does not move forward, let me know.

Mike