The Floch interview regarding the Pink/Birch smocks

[Waffenreich]

Please stay on subject.
The subject is the fake PINK smock.

Agree. If somebody can come up with a period pic that without doubt matches the pattern than the discussion takes a new turn. Without it then I'd say we're beating an already decomposed horse.

[kammo man]

[QUOTE=Willi Z.;8107243]If they are original, then where are the caps and helmet covers?

The logic circuit in play here hurts my brain....

Heres the problem.
The usual logic that every SS pattern made into pullovers does NOT follow with the PINK.
Not only is it a non Oak pattern but it also has NO correct cap and cover.
There are these items but they are so pathetic its beyond stupid.

[RobertE]

Seriously, do you buy groupings from veterans?

I do all the time or from families of veterans. Every once in a while there is a piece that shouldn't be in the group but it doesn't do any good arguing with the vet or the family as their memories may not be as sharp as they once were.

I have bought groups where the veteran picked up a piece later in life, like maybe a reunion or someplace else but in their mind it looks like something they had during the war, so it has to be right. But we as collectors know without a doubt the pieces didn't belong there or were made way afterwards.

I remember buying a group from a 94th division guy who swore to me that all his German bring back daggers were ones he personally took of dead Germans. He and I went back and forth for an hour about this. I kept saying, " Are you sure you didn't pick these up someplace else?". All his personal items were for sure WWII vintage, but those weren't being questioned. After a while he was starting to get mad at me and I finally just had to tell him that vintage daggers were not marked WEST GERMANY and that original ones also didn't have plastic handles. He then sat back and thought about it and he finally said, " Now that I think about it I may have gotten those after the war". Was he intentionally trying to sell me fakes? I don't think so, I just think time has a way of making memories not as clear as they should be.

Same could be said about the veteran having one of these pink smocks. Maybe he remembered seeing real WWII smocks and then he saw this one and picked it up because it looked like what he remembered seeing. Or maybe it was just added by an slimy dealer / buyer who was trying to justify one of these smocks. The rest of his Airborne grouping all jived to the guy but how did the smock get there. One will never know.

Yes Bob, I have bought hundreds of direct veteran purchases, and at least as many indirect from family members.

You could build a hundred scenarios, but legitimate, untouched veteran acquired groups existed and in my experience were generally not tampered with. A possibility, certainly, but to write off finds like this with no evidence of tampering because we don't like what was found is a convenient way to discount the smocks.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

Yes Bob, I have bought hundreds of direct veteran purchases, and at least as many indirect from family members.

You could build a hundred scenarios, but legitimate, untouched veteran acquired groups existed and in my experience were generally not tampered with. A possibility, certainly, but to write off finds like this with no evidence of tampering because we don't like what was found is a convenient way to discount the smocks.

s/f Robert

Please humor us and show this find.

[Bob Chatt]

Well you must be a better buyer then me, as I have had numerous direct veteran buys, with US vet's and bring back items and numerous times there have been items they picked up later on, but in their memory they were items they got during the war.

[RobertE]

Please humor us and show this find.

Sure Owen, let me get right on that and find pictures of every veteran purchase I've made from the 1970's to present. And that will change your mind how...?

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

So you c ant be bothered to back up your claim ?

[RobertE]

Well you must be a better buyer then me, as I have had numerous direct veteran buys, with US vet's and bring back items and numerous times there have been items they picked up later on, but in their memory they were items they got during the war.

I acknowledged it can happen Bob - the possibility exists. I'm saying that other than the smock that none of the detractors want to acknowledge is a veteran find, there is nothing to indicate this was such a group.

I posted a large SS insignia veteran find, and it had a printed eagle and an SS associated armband in it. Because printed eagles "were fake", it was also suggested that group was salted. Since a picture was since found of those eagles in wear, I guess it's OK now.

My point is that cherry picking the contents of a veteran find allow detractors to dismiss any item found they don't like. With that selective criteria, you can see how it would be impossible to ever have an acceptable veteran-associated find.

Just saying.

s/f Robert

[RobertE]

So you c ant be bothered to back up your claim ?

What claim?

[kammo man]

I acknowledged it can happen Bob - the possibility exists. I'm saying that other than the smock that none of the detractors want to acknowledge is a veteran find, there is nothing to indicate this was such a group.

I posted a large SS insignia veteran find, and it had a printed eagle and an SS associated armband in it. Because printed eagles "were fake", it was also suggested that group was salted. Since a picture was since found of those eagles in wear, I guess it's OK now.

My point is that cherry picking the contents of a veteran find allow detractors to dismiss any item found they don't like. With that selective criteria, you can see how it would be impossible to ever have an acceptable veteran-associated find.

Just saying.

s/f Robert

This
show find.
show thread.
Show Pink in grouping.


From 82nd guy who was in Germany........

[kammo man]

What claim?

Its like pulling teeth with you.......

[RobertE]

Its like pulling teeth with you.......

Be specific and people will know what you were talking about. I mentioned hundreds of veteran finds and you asked for photos of my "claim". I'll find the thread - I'm really surprised you haven't seen it.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

There is NOTHING that surprises me about you Robert.

[RobertE]

Here is where the find from the son was dismissed in the first few pages.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=pink+smock

Just couldn't have happened - not with THOSE smocks.

Looks like the pictures have been stripped, so maybe the moderators can help with that.

s/f Robert

[RobertE]

There is NOTHING that surprises me about you Robert.

You're welcome, Owen. Don't mind doing your searches for you at all, but let's not make it a habit.

s/f Robert