The Floch interview regarding the Pink/Birch smocks

[Waffenreich]

IOne only masters an area of interest by studying known originals, rather than by trying to keep up with the moving target that is the world of fakes.

Well said

[kammo man]

Don

With the above said............

I find it mind boggling that you own original SS cammo pullovers yet don't seem to see the drastic differences in both construction and cloth used in the Pink.

[luftwaffenkopf]

I haven't read this entire Thread and don't want to go too far off topic here, but I wanted to add my first (and last) experience with the pink smocks.

The first time I saw these (not one, but probably four) was at Regimentals when I was stationed in England. I remember this smock episode distinctly because I had been based there for 7 years already and had recently received orders to return to the US. This would have been about Spring of '92.

My buddy and I went to both Regimentals and Military Antiques (about a block apart in Islington) at least every other month and I remember that after the break-up of the Former Soviet Union (FSU) they both had a large amount of SS camo on-hand that wasn't typically available there in the past. He had four of the pink smocks in varying conditions, and a palm tree pattern that was pretty f'd up. I remember liking the palm the most, but it was far more expensive than the others. Military Antiques had a couple of "recently liberated" pieces as they were being described and a few camo helmet covers and a f'd up face veil (that was reallllyyy expensive). I still remember how they were playing eachother regarding the pricing. We'd walk between the shops lamenting over our decisions all the time on what to buy, while they were probably on the phone to eachother discussing who would go high or low that week. It was actually a hilarious affair for my friend and I all the time and we would be almost in tears on the 2-hour ride back to RAF Lakenheath.

ALL of the pink smocks had the exact combination of stamps you see here, but in varying degrees of completeness and/or clarity. None had a mark across them though like in this pic. Both Malcolm and Bobby were pretty liberal with us on their return privileges so we figured what the hell. I bought a helmet cover and he bought a pink smock.

Because there was jack sh.. out at the time showing any of this stuff in real detail (at least over there) we agonized over both pieces. The helmet cover was easy once we really dug into it. The fabric seemed wrong and the rivets were more like small blackened flat nail heads vs. larger domed aluminum looking rivet heads with a peen dent on them. He just never felt comfortable with the smock and knowing that we were leaving the UK in about a month we decided to bring both pieces back. We got a full refund for both with the only hassle being them both telling us we were returning "perfectly original pieces".

When I asked Malcolm about how he got these considering the chaos at the time with the break-up of the FSU he said they came through the Czech Republic.

This pic comes from this item on The Ruptured Duck's site: https://therupturedduck.com/collecti...ree-camouflage

i haven't read the whole thread either, but just be aware that the smock pictured on the Ruptured Duck has a Russian stamp with a word ending in "film", meaning it was used in their movie industry. that is all. now go ahead and tell me to "shut the f... up Donny", just like in the Big Lebowski,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8X2Qp_6aA

[nutmeg]

Don

With the above said............

I find it mind boggling that you own original SS cammo pullovers yet don't seem to see the drastic differences in both construction and cloth used in the Pink.

I have 3 plus a pink. I see the differences , no question , but in comparing it is evident to me the pinks are original as well. Just a variant.

[kammo man]

What does the silver bullet look like? What is ultimately needed to prove they were wartime produced? Has to be a period photo of one being worn, right?

There is NO wartime picture.

[kammo man]

I have 3 plus a pink. I see the differences , no question , but in comparing it is evident to me the pinks are original as well. Just a variant.

Bazare.

[Jeff V]

In a hobby where the slightest differences separate real from fake we have an item where everything is different and this somehow qualifies it as being original. There has never been a shed of evidence these are real only bizarre justifications.
I can only imagine if every fake we examined from badges to helmets to caps had this level of justifications, there would be no such thing as a fake anymore, everything could be justified as an unseen variant "from the east".

[kammo man]

Except no one has the story straight what part of the "EAST" they came from.

Just "East" of Flochs front door towards the factory where he had them made.

[nutmeg]

Except no one has the story straight what part of the "EAST" they came from.

Just "East" of Flochs front door towards the factory where he had them made.

If he made them why not caps and helmet covers? Way cheaper to make with a much higher profit margin.

[kammo man]

You are forgetting there are helmet covers.

Pease stay abreast of the PINK swindle.

[Waffenreich]

i haven't read the whole thread either, but just be aware that the smock pictured on the Ruptured Duck has a Russian stamp with a word ending in "film", meaning it was used in their movie industry. that is all. now go ahead and tell me to "shut the f... up Donny", just like in the Big Lebowski,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8X2Qp_6aA

I'm saying these stamps are identical, and I mean identical! That causes me some concern due to the association of the same stamps on different garments.

I'm not saying Bill's smock is bad, I just provided a pic of the stamps to show an example of what they looked like.

And Owen is correct - there were a lot of fake covers back then. Many of which are still around today and the pride of many a collection. All with the same signature mistakes - wrong fabric and wrong rocker clip hardware.

[nutmeg]

In a hobby where the slightest differences separate real from fake we have an item where everything is different and this somehow qualifies it as being original. There has never been a shed of evidence these are real only bizarre justifications.
I can only imagine if every fake we examined from badges to helmets to caps had this level of justifications, there would be no such thing as a fake anymore, everything could be justified as an unseen variant "from the east".

but there are loads of variations in all categories. Look at cuff titles. There are cuff titles shown in photos that are non regulation shown in only photos with no existing example.

[Waffenreich]

but there are loads of variations in all categories. Look at cuff titles. There are cuff titles shown in photos that are non regulation shown in only photos with no existing example.

And that's the key - the period photos.

Go back and read my comments please in post 597 regarding the absence of a single photo of one of these in wear.

[kammo man]

Please stay on subject.
The subject is the fake PINK smock.

[Willi Z.]

If he made them why not caps and helmet covers?

If they are original, then where are the caps and helmet covers?

The logic circuit in play here hurts my brain....... and is not the first time.