The Floch interview regarding the Pink/Birch smocks

[Dennis S]

Owen , I'll dig it out and take a pic , I think second with horizontal pockets if that's what you mean .

This is the only crappy pic of the brick side I have right now. It packed up in a closet right now.


The cover is a French fake ..original material with brass rockers ...my conclusion.
The smock was vet sourced by an old collector and squired by me in the late 70s . He added the cover He added from a dealer. I had to take both at the time I didn't realize the cover was not all original.

I added the drawstring

[kammo man]

ITs a beauty........
The poster is of course also stellar.


You should closely look at the actual pocket bags and compare.

[NickG]

$10 was a 2 week salary in communist Poland in early 80's

That's a good counter argument...I guess worth the risk smuggling these out
after the property stamps got defaced! (to cover their tracks)

[kammo man]

Really? I thought it was an excellent summary. Do see a single statement that is incorrect?

You have written a couple times in the last day that these smocks are crude. Why don’t you mention that they are much better cut and sewn than many wartime German SS smock runs? This is easy to see and your photo post back this fact up well. German produced SS camo items can be found to be among the sloppiest German garments produced in the war except for KZ inmate clothing.

Even if they were crude, that would not indicate that they are fake.

Inmate clothing is actually well made.

[Dennis S]

ITs a beauty........
The poster is of course also stellar.


You should closely look at the actual pocket bags and compare.

Thanks Owen did you notice the totenkopf on the mp
28 pouch...another vet sourced 70s item about 60% of my collection was vet sourced in old days.

I don’t even have to look at the pockets I can tell by memory that they are different.

What are the pockets like in your Italian camo smock?
Can you show them . I’m curious about that stuff.

[kammo man]

The Italian has flush pockets sewn on the outside.


Your pic is a bit grainy to see the finer points.

[Dennis S]

I'll photograph for you later

[I Claudius]

$10 was a 2 week salary in communist Poland in early 80's

Thank you. Having been in Poland at the time i had tried to stress this in one of the previous 300 threads but as usual those who want to believe just ignore the economic facts. A can of coke cost about 5 cents. A meal in a good restaurant about 50 cents when I was there.
Poland was flooded with superb fakes of every kind in the 80s. Levis etc. And guess what??? They were copied from original cloth items and about 95% perfect too
If you can copy levis to the 9th degree in stitching and material in the 80s do you really think a few seamstresses with old seeing machines couldn't knock these up?
Bogus film stamps, Incorrect colours, came off the back of a lorry, no paper trail.... but you can't prove us wrong therefore they're real.
And one on estand for a bargain 1100 euros. How come you guys haven't snapped it up if cheap doesn't equal fake? If you're so sure then 1100 for a real ss camo smock is a bargain

[nutmeg]

Thank you. Having been in Poland at the time i had tried to stress this in one of the previous 300 threads but as usual those who want to believe just ignore the economic facts. A can of coke cost about 5 cents. A meal in a good restaurant about 50 cents when I was there.
Poland was flooded with superb fakes of every kind in the 80s. Levis etc. And guess what??? They were copied from original cloth items and about 95% perfect too
If you can copy levis to the 9th degree in stitching and material in the 80s do you really think a few seamstresses with old seeing machines couldn't knock these up?
Bogus film stamps, Incorrect colours, came off the back of a lorry, no paper trail.... but you can't prove us wrong therefore they're real.
And one on estand for a bargain 1100 euros. How come you guys haven't snapped it up if cheap doesn't equal fake? If you're so sure then 1100 for a real ss camo smock is a bargain

Those earlier whowere pointing out how difficult it would be to smuggle items out of the Soviet bloc might take issue with this. What your saying is as an outsider hire people in communist Poland secertly to print the material, copy and original exactly, sew it all together , add studio markings to some ( after sneaking into Moscow to see what real 1940s markings look like ) , hang around for months while this is completed THEN smuggle them out of Poland .

The reason they don't sell for more is the issue of authenticity , and most who like them already have one. Even Owen has one.

[nutmeg]

What does the silver bullet look like? What is ultimately needed to prove they were wartime produced? Has to be a period photo of one being worn, right?

If a photo turned up, some would say it was photoshopped. If Floch produced bills of sale they would say he faked them. If a letter in the German Archives turned up from Oscar Dirlewanger asking if his men could have the reddish smocks stored in Lodz they would say Floch faked and planted it in the archives to be found.

Most the collectors I know do not participate in any forums (although some read them occasionally). They consider them too toxic and not worth the aggravation . Some of them , who have AMAZING collections do have a pink/birch smock stashed away . A few weeks ago I had two over for the afternoon (one probably has more SS camo then Owen) and we compared the pink/birch with 4 or five other smocks and they felt they were real. But like Mr. Petersen they are not going jump into the cage fight here.

[nutmeg]

Really? I thought it was an excellent summary. Do see a single statement that is incorrect?

You have written a couple times in the last day that these smocks are crude. Why don’t you mention that they are much better cut and sewn than many wartime German SS smock runs? This is easy to see and your photo post back this fact up well. German produced SS camo items can be found to be among the sloppiest German garments produced in the war except for KZ inmate clothing.

Even if they were crude, that would not indicate that they are fake.

I believe in earlier posts (maybe in one of the other threads) Owen did agree they were made better and that was another reason for not liking them, correct?

[kammo man]

They are modern made on automatic machines.

If you are going to quote me please keep it in context.

And again over the years I have owned 3 of the FAKE PINK smocks.

[cossack1648]

, add studio markings to some ( after sneaking into Moscow to see what real 1940s markings look like ) , hang around for months while this is completed THEN smuggle them out of Poland .

.

You are so sure that these studio markings are 100% real. In what other items, props or other studio property were they found except pinkies and few (4 or 5) original German camo pieces. Or were they exclusively reserved only for German uniform items?

Jack

[jacquesf]

If a photo turned up, some would say it was photoshopped. If Floch produced bills of sale they would say he faked them. If a letter in the German Archives turned up from Oscar Dirlewanger asking if his men could have the reddish smocks stored in Lodz they would say Floch faked and planted it in the archives to be found.

Most the collectors I know do not participate in any forums (although some read them occasionally). They consider them too toxic and not worth the aggravation . Some of them , who have AMAZING collections do have a pink/birch smock stashed away . A few weeks ago I had two over for the afternoon (one probably has more SS camo then Owen) and we compared the pink/birch with 4 or five other smocks and they felt they were real. But like Mr. Petersen they are not going jump into the cage fight here.

No offense, but have you ever read your postings or listened to yourself? There is absolute no logic, direction or factual base in the development of your arguments. You just keep on repeating your original argument and try to twist everything to fit those, while nothing is based on facts. At the same time ignore anything or anyone that does not fit your agenda.Therefor your argument does not move forward but continious in circles. That explains the ad nauseuam threads on the pink smock.

It is very similar to the style of someone defending a religious doctrine. In those facts also don't have a place. All based on conjecture, individual belief, egos and a massive amount of "what ifs". Looking at this from the outside this has seized to be about pink smocks a long time and many posts ago. J

[nutmeg]

You are so sure that these studio markings are 100% real. In what other items, props or other studio property were they found except pinkies and few (4 or 5) original German camo pieces. Or were they exclusively reserved only for German uniform items?

Jack

I have only seen them in German WW2 clothing so far including a pair of gray trousers. What got me involved with this is I just happened to be reading the first pink thread and I saw the discussion about the palm smock Bill Shea had and how that had the same markings as the pink/birch. I recalled the oak leaf smock I had which came from the old Tony Gordon collection had some sort of studio markings (which I never thought about) so when I checked it I was surprized to see they were the exact same ones. The difference with mine is they were clear enough to read the 1947 date . After that I bought a pink/ birch for myself being convinced they were good.