Camo coming from Lorenzo - Helmet cover

[Jeff V]

A good question I think.

I suspect the effect of these contentious discussions and improved fakery will have a deleterious effect on buying and values, at least for now. Look at what has happened with numbered badges, camo helmets and other items that have been copied oh so well. But perhaps all of this will present an opportunity to reset values at more sensible levels.

For the average collector who may not have expert knowledge in this area it will be necessary to carefully vet before buying. And for the seller it will be important to solicit expert opinions to avoid making mistakes before offering (and to avoid being accused of dishonesty).

For the record, I loathe fakes and fakers but all of my dealings with Lorenzo have been correct and I don't recall being offered any covers. He was quite candid when showing me uniforms and clearly stated when examples were restored and so on.

I make more than my share of mistakes already and the last thing I need is more 'help' in making them. So, it will be disappointing if it is proven that a formerly trusted person has been involved in deception as alleged.

Just to clarify, numbered badges, in fact almost all badges, are one of the most easy and safe things to collect in the hobby. Due to the free sharing of information fakes are easily spotted and any collector who arms himself with one of the excellent new badge books can buy with confidence.

[kammo man]

Robert, honestly do you have difficulty reading or comprehending? J

Need I say more ?

[RobertE]

Need I say more ?

Yes, you do but probably won't, or can't. You could start with this, posted in response to my last posting and agreeing these questions remain unanswered:

"Some have alluded to Lorenzo being the fall guy in all of this and that might indeed be the case. However, it begs these questions;

1/ What did he know when he represented the covers and caps in the deals like those in Sweden ?

2/ Who are the masterminds and actual fakers ?

3/ Also lets not leave Disco Partisan (if that is who he actually is ?) protest out of the mix, are we certain the covers/ caps are fake ?"

My questions address the information presented, and yours attacks my intellect. I do think THAT says it all, and wraps this thread up nicely.

regards, Robert

[kammo man]

Robert
Have you actually handled one of Lorenzo's covers ?

Have you met him ?

Has any of your friends been victims of his con game ?

[Marcel Banziger]

I've been reading this long thread with a lot of interest but it seems like the whole thread is going in circles without any definite answers to some questions.

The proof of Lorenzo's covers being fake is without doubt after endless reading here on the WAF. However, Robert's questions are still unanswered and it seems no answers will come to these questions because every question is answered with a return question. I just wonder why? Perhaps because there's no proof to these accusations? As long as people stay shut and don't come with answers I think it's better to close this thread since there's no more new results or information being presented.

And for the record, I don't know any of the involved people. I just followed this thread because of interest in these covers. I am also not defending Lorenzo since it's proven that his covers are fake. I just wonder why no answers are given to the other questions.

[Thorsten B.]

I just wonder why no answers are given to the other questions.

As long as people who could give answers to these questions see no benefit for themselves in doing so they will certainly keep their mouths shut.

[RobertE]

Robert
Have you actually handled one of Lorenzo's covers ?

No, I haven't. But irrelevant - I'm not arguing he may have sold a cover that turned out to be fake. Many good people have unwitting sold items that turned out to be bad.

Have you met him?

No, I haven't. But irrelevant - personal contact does not provide insight into this story.

Has any of your friends been victims of his con game ?

No, but they have been taken by other cons, as we all have. And by sums at least as large as we are talking here.

regards, Robert

[kammo man]

Lorenzo in person offered me a choice of his fake covers at the SOS from a bag he was carrying

What more is there to add ?

He pushed his bad covers on to other members here

What more is there to add?

[Marcel Banziger]

Lorenzo in person offered me a choice of his fake covers at the SOS from a bag he was carrying

What more is there to add ?

He pushed his bad covers on to other members here

What more is there to add?

The question was where is the proof that Lorenzo is the maker of these covers? It is clear now that Lorenzo was selling fake covers. Many others have been selling fake items to members here as well.

Don't get me wrong, intentionally selling fakes should mean deletion from the forum immediately. Just that one question that keeps coming back but remains unanswered; is he also the maker of these fakes?

[leib1]

You mean did Lorenzo sew them personally or did he have a little elf in the seller making them ?

[Marcel Banziger]

You mean did Lorenzo sew them personally or did he have a little elf in the seller making them ?

The question was very clear...and asked several times before by other members without ever being answered. Smart-ass comments don't bring this thread any further. Reason why I said before it's best to just close this thread since there's no more progression when people stay shut.

[dragnet]

You mean did Lorenzo sew them personally or did he have a little elf in the seller making them ?

Interesting question IMO, is the conclusion that this Lorezo makes these items himself, sat at the sewing machine, or is there a cottage industry gong on:

[Ian Hulley]

After the posting of this thread and the information contained within, IMHO, SS camo helmets covers now have little to no value, ORIGINAL or FAKE. Please keep in mind, hard core collectors are only interested in historic accuracy and NOT monetary value. The search for the truth is what this is about!

Jack

As I stated earlier I heard a while ago that at least some UK dealers were well aware of these covers and liquidated their stocks .... like an expensive game of Musical Chairs ... no-one wants to be left with a questionable cover when the penny finally drops and the market for SS covers goes with it.

Ian

[RobertE]

The question was where is the proof that Lorenzo is the maker of these covers? ... Just that one question that keeps coming back but remains unanswered; is he also the maker of these fakes?

And no one seems to know, although all through this thread the accusation stands that he made them. Since Lorenzo is accused of making them, did he?

And more importantly: Did Lorenzo wittingly make and then sell to dealers and collectors headgear that he knew was reproduction? There is no evidence this occurred in this thread, just accusations of same.

Assuming he did make them, were they produced and declared to be reproductions? Because several collectors who DID meet Lorenzo and DID see his items for sale were told by Lorenzo that they were reproductions, and he readily stated he made them.

As stated by other forum members, many, many dealers and collectors got their hands dirty selling bad items, and most of them are not evil men - they just got stuck with a bad item and sold or traded it without even knowing it was bad. I may not know Lorenzo, but I certainly know my share of cheats and rip-offs I've had the misfortune of meeting along the way, but I also have evidence of their misdeeds and intent to deceive.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

Think of the covers as Lorenzo's personal brand of helmet cover.
Only he knows where or who made them.