New discovered Allach piece?

[MasterBo]

a beautiful chest.

but it needs a candleholder on it instead of a lamp!

A dream chest, I would say...

[JimsAntiques]

Here is another Julfest item you might like - with SS connection, of course.

Where was this manufactured?? or when?

[J. Wraith]

Hello JW,
This message is not about the item in question per se, instead it is speaking in broad generalities...or Collector Application Theory for a grandiose term.
I personally distill your message above to the paranoia theme you warn about.
Fine, however, "paranoia" is not really "paranoia" if it is based in fact.

Michael,

Paranoia:

a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality.

Paranoia is a condition, not a reality. It is treated with medication generally and that is really the only fact you can attach to it. We joke about it and use the word loosely but in most cases there is no basis of fact and its an illusion.

I posit that the origins and continued enflaming of this "paranoia or reality check" is due to the continual emergence of fakes in all levels of TR collecting.
This, along with the empirical evidence that items collectors pay more for will enjoy higher scrutiny from cheats, scoundrels and fakers -makes Allach a target.
Honestly, I don't see how this can be downplayed or dismissed.
Sincerely,
Michael

What your talking about here are market forces, these are treated with education and experience with time spent in the hobby. Applications of knowledge, logic, experience, and skepticism. These are the basis of fact or the way to get to them as best as possible. Fanning the flames on pieces for the sake of it only serve to put people who lack the tools needed from moving on a piece out of fear, fear is a reality. You got guys whacking items for reasons that are not only without basis but unjustifiable, and ignorant. Ignorance is the killer, by reinforcing it you enhance or magnify the illusion or paranoia. Sure there are fakes, plenty of them and their difficult to deal with but they can be dealt with.

[J. Wraith]

Hello JW.
in this response by me I am only addressing "the largest auction house" idea and nothing else in your above post or to directly attack any actual item at this time.

From my own following on a few WAF forums discussing certain items offered from HH : The consensus has been to warn of the in-authenticity of certain items (wood and Cloth TR items if memory serves) on HH in their auctions.

I am sure we could simply do a thread search and find them rather quickly. And even if this were not the case, in this day and age collectors are surely not still so naive as to think ANY dealer or Auction house of TR was immune from fakes: purposely or accidentally.

Hermann Historica is the largest auction house in Europe, I don't think that is disputed, their catalogs are huge and run from the beginning of time through the 3rd Reich. They had some fakes this time around, even I was miffed on a few of them but I did not say they were perfect. If you want to run a score card on auction houses and fakes? I think they would score really well when compared to others. But the accusation was shill bidding, made by a shill bidder by trade, and on a real item that he said was fake or made up.

If you want to see fakes, you got BJ dumping into AA, RIA, and multiple other lower grade auction houses for 3 years, their entire catalogs are fake in many cases. Guns? The one higher end is a dumping ground for every piece of crap a dealer cannot move, their reputation is getting slammed and they may not realize it yet but sooner or later it will hit their bottom line. By that time its too late for them and that is fine with me. So if you really want to talk about fakes and auction houses I think your on the wrong one. They have some piece that are on the fence and they are utilizing what they have to try and avoid them, but your going to have fakes, its how many get that get through that matter. Couple were slam dunk fakes, with strong starts to boot and those are only items that I know.

[JimsAntiques]

You came on board and accused the largest European house of being crooked and selling a fake bird and your base logic was that the bird has never been seen before so it must be fake, and the house is crooked because you cheat people on Ebay with shill bids. I really do not think I need to justify anything to you.

So in other words you have no secret files that list a falcon produced by Allach,,
like I said,,Its rubbish and yes HH is a joke of an auction house,,,
oh,,heavens,,did you purchase something from them??

[Stossgruppe3]

Collecting Allach for me mates my love of art, history and cultural items of the period and oh yes, I like the animals too!

I love my horse ......
Regards
David

[TonyS]

Another fun thread on the WAF.....

Allach is not for everyones taste. I don't particularly like SS cammo or tinnies and there are plenty of Allach pieces that I wouldn't buy even if I had the money.

If the eagle is authentic then great. But Hermann-Historica auctions are usually riddled with fakes (especially in the cap and tunic areas) and it makes me wonder how much research they do before accepting items to auction. There are a number of guys they could have checked the eagle with before it was auctioned like Dennis Porrell, Kris Lindblom and Thorsten. But did they??

I highly doubt the chess set Nick posted is Allach - the quality is not there.

This is not my collection - some guy in Russia - but I wouldn't mind having it. The "boring" animals and plates can make an attractive display in a modern house. Of course it doesn't have the "kick ass" look of an SS Panzer wrap or SS visor.

[james m]

Here is another Julfest item you might like - with SS connection, of course.

Interesting:
I see a distinct similarity between this chest and examples that were made in Great Britain and the Unites States during the 17th Century.
Can you confirm the wood is oak, provide the dimensions and would it be possible to get a clearer shot of the front carving and also the interior?
Jim

[ErichS]

A very nice and attractive collection Tony and one much appreciated by me, a fellow Allach collector.

[BrianK]

IMO the only dream chest is Jayne Mansfield's.

[Robert H]

very nice display Tony, some call the animals "kitsch" but the quality of porcellan counts as well the taste of art. Hutschenreuther, Rosenthal, Meissen is as well on the highest ranks of quality. Quite underrated.
Meissen experts would drop their mouth when they would see my aunts closet

[Thorsten B.]

Interesting:
I see a distinct similarity between this chest and examples that were made in Great Britain and the Unites States during the 17th Century.
Can you confirm the wood is oak, provide the dimensions and would it be possible to get a clearer shot of the front carving and also the interior?
Jim

Yes, it is made of oak.
Already due to ideological reasons of the period and already before that, way back into the 19th century the german oak was defined as one of THE national symbols representing the character of the german people.

The SS Jul chest - here is a clearer shot of it´s front carving out of a war-time DHW booklet.

This is the Jul chest Type II.

[Thorsten B.]

a beautiful chest.

but it needs a candleholder on it instead of a lamp!

Let´s try this one.


Jim, here´s another clear shot of the front, hope it shows the carved details well enough.

[jabnus]

..and here we go again

[Michael Fay]

Hermann Historica is the largest auction house in Europe, I don't think that is disputed, their catalogs are huge and run from the beginning of time through the 3rd Reich. They had some fakes this time around, even I was miffed on a few of them but I did not say they were perfect. If you want to run a score card on auction houses and fakes? I think they would score really well when compared to others. But the accusation was shill bidding, made by a shill bidder by trade, and on a real item that he said was fake or made up.

If you want to see fakes, you got BJ dumping into AA, RIA, and multiple other lower grade auction houses for 3 years, their entire catalogs are fake in many cases. Guns? The one higher end is a dumping ground for every piece of crap a dealer cannot move, their reputation is getting slammed and they may not realize it yet but sooner or later it will hit their bottom line. By that time its too late for them and that is fine with me. So if you really want to talk about fakes and auction houses I think your on the wrong one. They have some piece that are on the fence and they are utilizing what they have to try and avoid them, but your going to have fakes, its how many get that get through that matter. Couple were slam dunk fakes, with strong starts to boot and those are only items that I know.

Gee whiz,
I don't care who or what is the biggest auction house, nor if other dealers and auctions are worse...that is a straw man argument.
You appeared to say that if HH is offering it, how can anyone be suspicious?
And I explained to you exactly how: they have offered in-authentic(fake) items too...
like everyone else.

Look, I know more than you seem to think, and I am less concerned about this Allach thread than you seem to think .