Ss 8 year

[J C Gray]

But we know that in period catalogs there is the evidence that P&L produced these medal with a round ring exactly like the one showed here.

Even from the less than perfect quality images in both the P&L and Schickle catalogues, we can see that the one shown here is not exactly the same ie. the 'acanthus leaf' type spiked, protrusions between each segment of the wreath, which are present on all 1st., 2nd. & 3rd grades of the SS-DA are notable by their absence on the medal in question here. The lettering on the reverse hasn't been very well thought out and almost looks like an afterthought NB. the high relief of the numeral which prevents the relief on the inscription from laying flush. The runes, both back & front have quite a soft, rounded appearance which, to me, is contrary to any other version of the Sigrunen that I have encountered and the rounded serifs on the lettering has quite a modern appearance compared to the wedge shaped serifs used on the inscriptions of known originals. Also, the way in which the suspension loop has been soldered at the wide end doesn't make as much sense as the originals being soldered at the narrow end, where it would not be as obviously visible.

[Antonio Scapini]

I agree with you JC for some pionts, but in some other parts I have a completely different opinion.
For example: the Memel made from P&L were considered fakes only because "they looks very different from other makers", another pattern called Straigh G 7 was considered fake due to his "lacking details". Both were perfect originals. And this happened in a lot of other cases.

Please show us (you or someone who has one or know one) a Schickle or a P&L SS long service original medal.

Isn't it really curious that the only two makers that we are sure produced and showed on their catalogs the SS LS medals, have no correspondence today?

IMO this badge we consider fake, shold be demonstrate it is really a fake.
Its finish looks good, as its design and weight too. When someone will show me an original Schickle or P&L than I agree this one is fake. Until today we are speaking only about opinions without only one solid proof.

My question is obvously done to improve our knowledge about these badges, as you know.

[Kamil]

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[Thorsten B.]

Say what you want but I see nothing wrong with this one.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I agree with you JC for some pionts, but in some other parts I have a completely different opinion.
For example: the Memel made from P&L were considered fakes only because "they looks very different from other makers", another pattern called Straigh G 7 was considered fake due to his "lacking details". Both were perfect originals. And this happened in a lot of other cases.

Please show us (you or someone who has one or know one) a Schickle or a P&L SS long service original medal.

Isn't it really curious that the only two makers that we are sure produced and showed on their catalogs the SS LS medals, have no correspondence today?

IMO this badge we consider fake, shold be demonstrate it is really a fake.
Its finish looks good, as its design and weight too. When someone will show me an original Schickle or P&L than I agree this one is fake. Until today we are speaking only about opinions without only one solid proof.

My question is obvously done to improve our knowledge about these badges, as you know.

A Fake is a Fake until proven Real, not Real until proven Fake.

[Thorsten B.]

A Fake is a Fake until proven Real, not Real until proven Fake.

So what?

[Antonio Scapini]

A Fake is a Fake until proven Real, not Real until proven Fake.

We are sure P&L and Schickle produced these medals. But until today no one surfaced! I think we are doing another BIG mistake here... You can't say "FAKE" without solid proofs, you must explain why.

Say what you want but I see nothing wrong with this one.

I agree with you Thorsten.

The surface of this medal reveals a really fine work done on the die, and also the curvature near the rim is fine and impossible to find on fakes done in this way.

[J C Gray]

We are sure P&L and Schickle produced these medals. But until today no one surfaced!

True, but this is clearly not one of them...neither is it the same as those shown in the Doehle books or the Reichsgesetzblatt.
I think that we are making a big mistake here to say that it is original, just because it is die-struck and is slightly dished...for me. thats where the similarity ends, in fact I find the extremely high relief on this medal overdone and crude and although is of a far, far higher quality than many fakes, it still lacks ,what I can only describe as "style".
In my opinion, the negatives far outweigh the positives on this one, which is why I think it is a fake.

[Thorsten B.]

In my opinion, the negatives far outweigh the positives on this one, which is why I think it is a fake.

Which negatives exactly are you refering to?

I just cannot see any.

[J C Gray]

Which negatives exactly are you refering to?

I just cannot see any.

"Even from the less than perfect quality images in both the P&L and Schickle catalogues, we can see that the one shown here is not exactly the same ie. the 'acanthus leaf' type spiked, protrusions between each segment of the wreath, which are present on all 1st., 2nd. & 3rd grades of the SS-DA are notable by their absence on the medal in question here. The lettering on the reverse hasn't been very well thought out and almost looks like an afterthought NB. the high relief of the numeral which prevents the relief on the inscription from laying flush. The runes, both back & front have quite a soft, rounded appearance which, to me, is contrary to any other version of the Sigrunen that I have encountered and the rounded serifs on the lettering has quite a modern appearance compared to the wedge shaped serifs used on the inscriptions of known originals. Also, the way in which the suspension loop has been soldered at the wide end doesn't make as much sense as the originals being soldered at the narrow end, where it would not be as obviously visible."

"True, but this is clearly not one of them...neither is it the same as those shown in the Doehle books or the Reichsgesetzblatt."

[Steve T]

We are sure P&L and Schickle produced these medals. But until today no one surfaced! I think we are doing another BIG mistake here... You can't say "FAKE" without solid proofs, you must explain why.


I agree with you Thorsten.

The surface of this medal reveals a really fine work done on the die, and also the curvature near the rim is fine and impossible to find on fakes done in this way.

Looking at the period images it doesn't look like either the alleged Deschler or the P&L so one has to believe it's a fake or if you think its genuine then an unknown maker.

Pics of both on my homepage if you want to see the period shots.

[Thorsten B.]

Well, according to that idea of argumentation some Allach pieces ought to be neither original nor exist at all - just because they do not show up in official period documentation.

Nonetheless they are original period pieces.

And according to the visable outstanding quality of this SS award I assume it is a period original piece as well.

[Steve T]

Well, according to that idea of argumentation some Allach pieces ought to be neither original nor exist at all - just because they do not show up in official period documentation.

Nonetheless they are original period pieces.

And according to the visable outstanding quality of this SS award I assume it is a period original piece as well.

No, didn't say that.

I said it doesn't match the alleged Deschler or the P&L so if you believe in it then it must be another maker. It's surely not from the dies of the two mentioned, shown in period images. Of course you could argue the makers had various dies, but that's another unknown.

[Antonio Scapini]

Steve, I have both period catalogs images, I asked only to see an original P&L or a Schickle medal, because until today no one show me one of them. And these were for sure done during the TR period.
So or they completely disappear after the war, or we are doing some really big big big mistakes again. There are no other solutions.

This 8 years can be made from another maker, we cannot say. But it has some characteristics of an original one without any doubt.

[SScollector]

I can confirm 100% that this medal is a cast fake. The reason I know this, is because I have handled many of them. In fact, this is one of the first fakes that I ever learned. Ten years ago, I ordered a nice Deschler 8-year from a website. The picture showed a nice original Deschler 8-year service medal.
However, when it came in the mail, it was one exactly like this one.
I studied it for several hours and was easily able to identify many cast flaws, as well as many other flaws and of course, I sent it back and struggled to finally get a refund.

The loop attached to the medal is poorly done. The eight on the back side is way too flat. There is no polishing on the higher relief portions of the details and the finish is not the correct anodizing, just to name a few things.
As was stated, the leaves coming out of the binder are wrong, etc.
One could go on and on, but the cast surface can easily be seen here.

Anyway, I have seen many of these same fakes since then, (show after show, website after website), and there is no mistaking these for what they are, IMO.

Chris