Original SS Ring?

[tanker]

Craig
I do not fault you for a successful business. Ron

I do understand your comment about history, Tanker, I do. This is a passion with me also. If you read my book on the TK ring, I think that this passion will come across to you. It is more than just "rings" for me, as my upcoming book will be more than just "Gau Badges." But as someone who puts food on the table by delivering militaria to collectors, the money is important also, and I think you can understand that too.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Why, thank you, Ron We can finally agree on something! You know, during a recent interview for an upcoming television show, I made the comment that it's nice to make a business out of your hobby. But, the flip side is that your hobby becomes a business, and in so doing, you loose a lot of the joy of collecting.

[Gaspare]

"What makes the TK ring different is the physical structure of the ring itself."

Craig, do you know what die casting even is? or seen a die pressing operation with when the material has been warmed into the 'plastic state'. Do you know that when metal [to include billet] has been re smelted then used in a die press it also gives the same findings of molten metal.

If what your doing is called research its a good thing your not in the medical field..... You mis information has done nothing but just about brought the HR market to a stand still, never before in the hobby has the HR been in a position of not even being wanted anymore by collectors unlesss they dig one or woodwork find one themselves..
Unless collectors own more than you your the expert? ..
Give it a rest, you've done enough damage

[Niblet]

"What makes the TK ring different is the physical structure of the ring itself."

Craig, do you know what die casting even is? or seen a die pressing operation with when the material has been warmed into the 'plastic state'. Do you know that when metal [to include billet] has been re smelted then used in a die press it also gives the same findings of molten metal.

If what your doing is called research its a good thing your not in the medical field..... You mis information has done nothing but just about brought the HR market to a stand still, never before in the hobby has the HR been in a position of not even being wanted anymore by collectors unlesss they dig one or woodwork find one themselves..
Unless collectors own more than you your the expert? ..
Give it a rest, you've done enough damage

Could not have said it better,,well put

[John Pic]

Agree with Gaspare 100% and I dont own a ring.

[james m]

Quote from Gottlieb
"Given the evidence I've presented over the past couple of years, despite ridicule, most people have come to believe my theory. "

The above is an example of the kind of smokescreen he has thrown up in the TK arena by Gottlieb. When asked to provide specifics such as the names of reputable collectors/dealers who subscribe to his convoluted rubber mold "theory" he either 1:Changes the subject or 2: Demeans the individual asking for specifics.
As far as real proof goes inre. to jewelry construction during the 3rd Reich plenty of specifics pointing to die casting being utilized have previously been provided. Not ONE factual piece of information has been provided by a recognized authority to support the "rubber mold theory".
Again; We ask that ONE credible source in this hobby be cited that actually subscribes to the "rubber mold theory". This is NOT an attempt to determine someones popularity it's an attempt to review facts.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Bob Hritz.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Wolfe and Hardin. But of course, all four of us are idiots, right?

[Craig Gottlieb]

But remember . . . when the "round earth" theory was first postulated, those pesky "round earthers" were in the VAST minority. Same for the Heleotropic theory.

[Craig Gottlieb]

And viewers . . . please view Jim's comment above:

Not ONE factual piece of information has been provided by a recognized authority to support the "rubber mold theory".

Well, what exactly is a letter from a professional jewelery caster with roots in 1930s Europe? What about spectrographic analysis of the metal? Those are just two examples of "factual pieces of information." Oh yes, they are on Gottlieb's payroll!

I think if you viewers review the relevant threads, you will see who has resorted to personal attacks and who has not.

[Jon Fish]

I for one actually enjoyed Craigs Honour ring book and get it out occasionally to leaf through it. The work and effort that goes in to such a publication must be immense and I for one tremble at the thought of doing a book. Although I would love to attempt one on the Blood Order I will settle for assisting Craig with photographs and information when he starts putting pen to paper on that subject.
Don Boyle set the bar with his book,excellent at the time- but it was raised with Craigs book IMO.
There you go guys shoot me down if you like but do you not think its time to give Craig a bit of a break. How many other top dealers bother to come on a forum,let alone post or defend their position. Yeah sure he makes mistakes,who doesn't !? But as seen with the recent auction he ran there is always the upmost attempt to sell original militaria and weed out the crap.
I've bought multiple times from him and never had cause for complaint or buyers remorse, sure,sometimes I have paid a little over the odds but thats because I just couldn't find that item in the same condition under the same circumstances anyplace else.
Rant over !

[Thorsten B.]

Actually this thread is about the Ehrenring and it´s construction in the period.

I do not base my own opinion about this and any other matter on what other people say or believe - no matter who it is.


All that matters are not opinions but facts - facts that stand on their own merits by documents from the period.

Gaspare has brought forward his own arguments based on facts from the period by examining the construction tools he mentioned.

Craig has brought forward arguments of other people and of a later period - that´s a big difference.

[PAB_Collector]

Bob Hritz.

I believe Bob changed his mind.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ng#post4267199

[Thorsten B.]

Furthermore:

Craig mentioned:

"Well, what exactly is a letter from a professional jewelery caster with roots in 1930s Europe?"


Is that really true? Is that really what Norman Collins states?


NO - IT IS NOT TRUE.

In comment 52 of this thread Craig showed the letter of Mr. Norman Collins.

All we need is the first sentence:

"From the pictures provided, I am strongly of the belief that this ring, dated 21.12.44, has been produced by lost wax casting and I know from experience that DENTAL MECHANICS were certainly using LOST WAX AT THIS TIME in Germany."

NOTHING about german jeweler´s production methods - NOTHING!

All Norman Collins says and offers is "his experience" that dental mechanics used lost wax at about end of 1944 in Germany - that´s it.

And even for that statement NO evidence is brought forward by him as well.

So finally is does not surprise that he is "strongly of the believe" that the Ehrenring has been produced by lost wax casting.

Again:

I do not want to read what other people believe - I want historical facts.

[sgstandard]

TK Ring

It's admirable to stick up for the book and Craig's other accomplishments - no one begrudges success - after all, we're not communists here. But the criticism is due to the fact that we can't even have a discussion, because one side of the argument refuses to address even the SIMPLEST of questions - IF THEY USED LOST-WAX CASTING, IT WAS FOR A REASON. THERE MUST BE AN ADVANTAGE. WHAT IS IT?