Original SS Ring?

[Gaspare]

In the 1300s people gave all kinds of evidence the earth was flat too!!

Any one of your experts giving testimony if you gave them the choice between investment cast and die struck will form the opinion of investment cast..
- throw die cast , die pressed, show some real evidence like ring dies from the period and their opinion would be completely different. Your experts are putting out what you feed them and that's pure rubbish.

You haven't really given one bit of evidence. Your metallurgical evidence [still don't see that anywhere] but knowing what you want to prove does not distinguish it any differently than die cast, and in the right conditions even die pressed. "Structural microscopic analysis" will be the same especially with die cast and as mentioned before [under the right condition] die pressed..


The HR is no different than any other mass produce ring available at the time. Ask your experts to explain the period ring dies out there? and why would a investment cast ring have any flaws to it at all? , has anyone seen a professional investment cast ring with flaws after the test model was made?

[Craig Gottlieb]

Cut ALL the BS.
Do proper structural microscopic analysis.
This will prove absolutely whether a cast or wrought structure.
Put your money where your mouth is,donate a ring.

Seiler

That's the problem with this topic; it's like fighting a hydra. You see, we've already done that (David May did x-ray flourescence microscopic scan, and it revealed certain characteristics in the metallurgical fingerprint that point to molten casting. You can read about it here. If I ever find a ring worth only a few hundred bucks due to total wear, I might donate it for further study.

[Gaspare]

Read it fast, didn't really see anything where it points to casting ,, and tell you what,,even if it does, it would also apply to die casting,,and, with the right conditions die pressing..

In the next year or so 100% proof will be published that private purchase rings were die cast and die pressed,,
- again the questions,, what makes the HR different than any other mass produced ring?Explain ring tooling that are now in collections? Why would there be any flaws on the ring after ther first batch?
With the problems if silver availability mid/late war why would investment cast be used when it clearly involved more energy,manpower, waste and resmelting etc.?

[Craig Gottlieb]

Gaspare is right - we already have proof that some private purchase rings used a die. What makes the TK ring different is the physical structure of the ring itself. People choose all different manner of production, in any industry. For example, in the gun industry, some AR-15 receivers are forged, while others are precision cut from aluminum blocks. Different companies have different ways of making things. It's never just "one way."

Every jewelry expert with casting experience considers the TK ring a "one looker." Given the evidence I've presented over the past couple of years, despite ridicule, most people have come to believe my theory. Sure, I could be proven wrong someday with a photo of the Gahr casting firm at work using a die instead, but for now, I stand by the strength of my evidence. Metallurgical, physical, historical, and testimonial (I know "anybody can say anything" but in this case, you have jewelry experts from the old-world saying NOT just "anything" but coming down squarely on the side of investment-casting). These are EXPERTS that know more about analyzing jewelry than ANYBODY here, including me.

[Thorsten B.]

[sgstandard]

TK Ring

"....despite ridicule, most people have come to believe my theory." Really? Who are these people? The 3rd graders at the local elementary school you managed to convince don't really count. Don't worry about being ridiculed. Jesus was ridiculed too. Now what are the advantages?

[james m]

Craig Gottlieb:
Perhaps you could post a list of those,who are recognized experts in the 3rd Reich militaria field, that accept your investment cast ring theory. You keep claiming that there are those who have come over to your way of thinking but I don't remember one credible name being associated with your theory in this thread or other threads. How about asking someone like John Pepera for example to publicy comment on your ring theory here on this forum?

[Craig Gottlieb]

Not necessary, Jim. This isn't a popularity contest or a reader poll. Besides, the way this usually goes, I could produce God and Otto Gahr as believers, and you'd find something wrong with the paper their letter was printed on.

[james m]

This is essentially the response I expected. When you have nothing concrete to add just change the subject or make accusations of those that raised the subject to begin with.
We all know there isn't any credible authorities who buy into your "theory" I just wanted to get you to admit it here.
Jim

[Craig Gottlieb]

"Nothing concrete to add." That's really funny.

Tell you what, Jim . . . when you've actually OWNED a TK ring, and you can acknowledge that I've added SOMETHING concrete in the field of TK ring research, I'll be glad to engage in dialogue with you. My credentials speak for themselves. Please enjoy a Scotch on the rocks.

[tanker]

I tell you what, I own a ring and what you have added to the hobby is a lot of dissent and questionable pieces.
For the part about telling Jim that until a person owns a ring they can't comment. BS! It doesn't take an owner to question or know something about a collectable.
I agree, produce a list if you can. Ron

"Nothing concrete to add." That's really funny.

Tell you what, Jim . . . when you've actually OWNED a TK ring, and you can acknowledge that I've added SOMETHING concrete in the field of TK ring research, I'll be glad to engage in dialogue with you. My credentials speak for themselves. Please enjoy a Scotch on the rocks.

[james m]

"Nothing concrete to add." That's really funny.

Tell you what, Jim . . . when you've actually OWNED a TK ring, and you can acknowledge that I've added SOMETHING concrete in the field of TK ring research, I'll be glad to engage in dialogue with you. My credentials speak for themselves. Please enjoy a Scotch on the rocks.

I've never owned a Ferrari either Craig but if you remember correctly I was able to tell you where the battery was located in the one you briefly owned; a point that had escaped you.
There are others in this hobby whose opinion inre. to TK rings I respect who haven't owned one either including Gaspare Bua.
The difference is they don't have an "agenda" as you do.
Scotch on the Rocks? You obviously have confused me with Mark Paul who is the Scotch drinker and another who at one time had some sembelence of respect for your opinion.

[Craig Gottlieb]

That's funny, Tanker. I'm glad you have your opinion, but I guess the world disagrees (the vote with their dollar, and the last time I checked, people are voting in my favor). Jim: What can I say . . . I'm glad you have the ability to read minds and discern my "agenda."

For those of you who can't read minds: My agenda is simple: make a fair profit selling 100% guaranteed-original militaria to the collecting community.

I wish militaria collecting form was still around . . . you could then say things like "Craig is Gay" and "Craig wasn't in the USMC" and "Craig is responsible for the buns/hotdog ratio being so unbalanced."

[tanker]

For me it is the history. I want to preserve it and could care less about the dollar. The problem is when you are all about the dollar and that can cloud the collecting history. Leaves to much room for trying to sway folks to your way of thinking to make one thing, PROFIT!
Ron

That's funny, Tanker. I'm glad you have your opinion, but I guess the world disagrees (the vote with their dollar, and the last time I checked, people are voting in my favor). Jim: What can I say . . . I'm glad you have the ability to read minds and discern my "agenda."

For those of you who can't read minds: My agenda is simple: make a fair profit selling 100% guaranteed-original militaria to the collecting community.

I wish militaria collecting form was still around . . . you could then say things like "Craig is Gay" and "Craig wasn't in the USMC" and "Craig is responsible for the buns/hotdog ratio being so unbalanced."

[Craig Gottlieb]

I do understand your comment about history, Tanker, I do. This is a passion with me also. If you read my book on the TK ring, I think that this passion will come across to you. It is more than just "rings" for me, as my upcoming book will be more than just "Gau Badges." But as someone who puts food on the table by delivering militaria to collectors, the money is important also, and I think you can understand that too.