Rare SSVT tunic illusion...or

[Robert H]

possible the one from the MAX, 22k then I wonder what a named original JST would be worth

[John Pic]

That tunic may have been one from a set of tunics said to belong to one officer that were all sold by Kai Winkler...the officer tunic went to a California Collector, the Officer Candidate tunic was also in the hands of another California Collector Bob Demel,and one went to and unk location.

I watch this stuff closely to see how it changes hands and this is why I can say with no reserve that the pricing of these items is ridiculous and is caused by all the inter trading among dealers...and the trade of parts to "refurbish" uniforms.

Anything over $25,000 sold to average joe collector at some point inevitably gets returned to Dealer God or one of the other high enders and stored in his/their closet to show all the prospective buyers what can be had should they be willing to mortgage a home...some people do and spend a lifetime paying off the debts...some items are truly one of a kind...well they used to be years ago finding a Black SS officers wrap was like seeking a gold nugget in the L.A. River basin ..now they are easy to find but expensive to purchase and pop up semi regularly for PRICE ON REQUEST...and none have the dirt of battle on them.

[Leroy]

If you stop buying from dealers who sell fakes, you will stop buying from 100% of all dealers.

If you stop buying from dealers who knowingly sell fakes, you will stop buying from at least 80% of all dealers.

The only protection in this world is to know more about what you are buying than the person selling it.

Thank you, John Pic.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Ah!

possible the one from the MAX, 22k then I wonder what a named original JST would be worth

We went from JSB to a named JST ??? Most curious. "Sometimes a Man's Life depends on a mere scrap of information".

Pregunte, Fragen von Robert....meine antwort ...MEHR !

[John Pic]

I believe it was JSB

[Massimo F.]

I think its time to stop buying anything from this creep. Weitz, has just gotten caught, and as a result has no integrity in my book. Items should always be sold as found, and never changed if it is a pure hobby....but since it isnt, who wants tuned up crap.....I dont?? I value the vet brought home items the most, and if anything i own isn't vet found, originally that is, I don't value it nearly as much.

I say hit em where it hurts : reputation/ and wallet. Besides these german dealers charge at least 1/2 times more , and there is not that much to be found in germany. Most all comes from the usa anyway. We hold the lions share. My suggestion: Don't ever sell anything to weitz. And if you do, charge him 1/2 x more or no deal.
I personally will never buy from this cheeze ball, or ever sell him anything if i ever sell my collection. Its just a matter of pricipal, and when the guy sold picketts items on the road show, and was resold, it is the same fraud to screw this seller, then to make up such a flimsy excuse, is nothing short of deceit.
He also has many employees combing the forum constantly looking for weitz threads effecting his practices, so don't think he doesnt. I'd say he has a finders fee for all articles negative to him first reported , so collateral damage may be controlled as in this case. He's basicly just a a whore like the rest of the disreputable, and to me has no integrity....strictly commercial, and out for his own benefit exclusively. I don't care what he sells, i'll also bet he has ringers so well made, we are all fooled. I will stick with woodwork hunting , and its those deals that really are the most exciting anyway than the easy but more expensive dealer deal. I wish weitz could be shut down for principles sake for misrepresentation, and gross neglegence of good common decency in business practices. Its time we see such dealers as they really are, and stop paying the stupidly rediculous prices they want with the economy in the crapper as it is. Stop buying, and they will fade away. Mr weitz, your note has come due. I hope your karma makes you pay dearly for all the years you have gotten away with such blastphemy to the collector, and so i wouldnt be suprised if your life suddenly changed for the worse. I don't buy the out of town excuse either....i give you a thumbdown

100%

"Benefit of the doubt" ??? for those prices there shouldn't be room for any! Well done John! BRAVO!

[dcdefend]

Uniform Fax?

Great job John Pic. Even when everyone knows this happens, it's great to see someone get caught. Weitze's response was sad. It's also sad that this is a hobby that a casual collector cannot take part in. To ever purchase something as sought after as an SS tunic one must not only be very rich, but also an expert.

This incident compares with the stories of used car dealers. At least we now have Car Fax to cut out some of the fraud. This forum acts as our Uniform Fax.

My advice to non-expert, non-rich collector - collect reproductions. They're affordable, display well and you'll sleep better at night.

John

[Mgalat]

I thought Weitze was one of the "good guys" and had faith in him...very disappointing!!!
As aside..has anyone seen the all the WSS tunics ,and the prices, Winkler has listed on his site?

[Hohenstaufen]

Doc,

I think that what Robert H. was reffering too, is that, if EMA is asking a start price for 22K for a JSB tunic, then what would Robert's named JST grouping be worth.

[TonyS]

Yes he has been very "weak" on the uniforms and the headgears... if one should put the words mildly... be he never reached the heights of Mr Kai Winkler... and who knows whom co-operated with whom... Dirty world...

//Felix

The fake (Hermann Göring Division)Conrath document scandal was a big one - oh and all those wonderful color piped SS visor caps he used to have....

[Dr. Strangelove]

Exactly

Doc,

I think that what Robert H. was reffering too, is that, if EMA is asking a start price for 22K for a JSB tunic, then what would Robert's named JST grouping be worth.

I know exactly what he meant

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Several weeks ago I started a thread `does anyone know of a genuine SS uniform out there` judging the amount of respondents and readers it was a great success. But after everyone had put in their two cents, it turned out nobody realy knew of any out there for sale even though some people gave Oakleaves´ LAH tunic for a whopping 50K plus a positive mention. This should be a tell tale sign for anyone even considering the Winkler stash.

SS tunics are extremely rare and if suddenly there are twenty for sale - DANGER.

If these tunics are fairly cheap - say between 5 and 10K - DANGER.

I am very sceptical of the brand new tunics popping up at Weitze and Winkler - DANGER.

My advise would be stay away from SS-tunics. These items are just too rare and the prices too high - this is like blood in the water for unscrupulous fakers. Sure most people will be able to pic out low quality fakes but once it is big bucks you can use/produce genuine materials, use real or hand made quality insignia and so on. A high end tailor will produce a now a days elaborate ceremonial military tunic for about 1000 Euro - if that is what is required to make something exquisite - a comparably priced high end job may be done for SS-tunics. This means you make something for 1-5 K and will be able to sell it for 20-40K. That is a serious profit margin. Sorry but my scepticism has won the day for me - I am out of this field of collecting.

[Hohenstaufen]

Everyone,

I talked to Jason the other day and informed him of what was being said here on the forum, which I am sure by now, he has read the entire thread. I would assume, knowing Jason, that he is probably having the SS tunics double checked before he shows the pictures on his Auction site. Jason is a stand up guy and I can assure you that the last thing that he wants is selling a reproduction on his auction house. If the tunics with the missing pictures are Mr. Weitze's tunics, then that is why they are not being shown until Jason makes absolutely sure that the information about them is correct!

[kaiserwilhelm2]

HHHMMMMM this is the same stand up guy who sold a 800 silver marked WWI Fliegerabzeichen on EMA to a friend of mine. I had a look at it. I had my doubts. We went to a quality jeweler. We had it tested for silver content. And guess what ... no silver. Jason took four months to take the item back and refund my friend. Stand up for sure.

Guys, these people - the top dogs - all know one another and operate together selling to each other back and fro. Weitze and Jason are co-founders of Empire and operate it together with several others.

[Ian Hulley]

even though some people gave Oakleaves´ LAH tunic for a whopping 50K plus a positive mention.

This is Oakleaf Militaria you're talking about ? Were these people from the Chicago area pray ?

Ian