S.S. Banner discovered in bag of old uniforms!

[RaymondG]

this banner WAS NEVER NEVER FOUND IN A BAG OF OLD UNIFORMS. I WAS IN THE ANTIQUE SHOP. WHERE YOUR MATE FROM CHESTERFIELD? I THINK? GOT THIS FROM. DONT BUY THE STORY MY AMIGOS

Sorry to digress, but what has this to do with Chesterfield, and which Chesterfield; the one in England or the US?

It seems a very odd comment to make

Raymond

[Mike P.]

Hi James ,
You know …in a way I’m regretting that I posted the Banner now. I’ve already had people contact me to buy it and it’s not for sale at any price ..that’s not why it was posted.<O</O
Jimmy said he was in the shop.<O</O
Why didn’t he just admit that the SS flag was his and ask if it was the same flag…why the drama? why accuse me of lying about it ?<O</O
If he ended up with an item (any item)and started researching it , I'm sure the first thing any of us would do would be to take pictures of it so it could be Emailed around (or posted on Forums) to get some opinions. What he should do is post the pictures so we can compare the two.
If for some reason he does not have the pics ...he should be able to find out where that Flag ended up so we can contact the new owner.
The "trail" can't end at that shop ...our "community" is too small now.
You said it had been passed by a few other collectors..let me know who those collectors are and I'll follow that up because one of them could have pictures of it . Or , give me the name and phone number of that shop and I'll call to find out who it was sold to....at this point it's not the Banner at stake here ..it's my honor and I will not be accused of making up a story and being a liar so , I'll do whatever it takes to clear this up.
Maybe Jimmy should have posted instead of you ..he pointed the finger, he made a joke out of it ..not you.
It's nice of you to try cleaning it up for him though.


One thing ...It was given to me , I didn't buy it, I found it yesterday , and if it has a "cousin" in the UK that's an exact match (and I mean exact)...I'd bet that's probably a real one as well and was just Misdiagnosed .

[TonyS]

I Know who you mean and it was a sad day and a Sad loss

I don't see why Donald cannot be named - at least I assume that is who you all mean.

Yes he is sorely missed on the forums........

[Mike P.]

Donald A is a Gentleman and an asset to this Hobby

[John Pic]

Donald was a great guy but the guy who drove him away is no youngster and has many years in the hobby as well. I dont agree with the reasons that guy went after Donald but I also dont agree that Donald shouldve left the forums his knowledge was his forcefield. Donald is probably reading this too if you are my friend I hope you are well and will join us again just brush the mud slung off and forward,forward,forward as most good soldiers do !

[Mike P.]

sorry about this guys , I'm just getting frustrated at what looks like a game being played on me here ..maybe this is how it works these days.
Hope they're enjoying themselves.

[Vid]

Well, I certainly cant throw stones in many occasions in regards to comments, but the comment in question was not a comment on the piece as much as it was a direct statement calling the poster (Howard) a liar. A simple apology should suffice for all.

In the last month I think I have seen Mr. Hritz take a shot on a piece that he thought was good and Bob Coleman as well, it does not happen often and I do not think any of us are immune to mistakes. I am a very cautious individual and don't really specialize outside of the Allach porcelain, so it can be difficult buying pieces and I always end up with something and on many occasions its sole judgment of the overall piece and application of history as I know it, and the main thing (downside) risk/reward if you will.

The grommet issue had me perplexed as it came so fast I did not have time to recognize it was a one sided banner and not a flag, or I would have said something. But sometimes people react too fast and throw information they have received at an item where it does not apply. You have to ask the right question if you expect the right answer.

I saw flag and went blank, I have seen the fake flags with the bunting and rope and I know these items in original form are rare, but people jumped so fast it was crazy.

Its a nice piece and looks ok to me, I don't think I would shell out for such a piece if at a dealer table out of fear, but thats just not the case here. So mike has agreed to send it to me to hang in my new home until he is done remodeling. Call it lend/lease

As for Mr. Abenheim? He was a gentlemen for sure and his artistic use of the English language gave me such a laugh when I would read his posts. Being a street kid I enjoyed that immensely. A great loss in my opinion.

Best,

Kris

[John Pic]

Mike...that guys comments were out of line sometimes people speak too soon and really its no big deal its a fine Banner to go with the mounds of nice items you have saved over the years like the 500 billion Iron crosses ..you have a very impressive collection !

[jambobbyb]

Sorry to digress, but what has this to do with Chesterfield, and which Chesterfield; the one in England or the US?

It seems a very odd comment to make

Raymond

Hi Guys right i am only adding to the story as i saw it first hand, I dont think this is the same flag but i belive they are from the same source! the local guys in the Sheffield M and T (for anyone who knows them) had said this flag was bad the dealer selling it K from AM sold it onto a guy from Chesterfield UK,
Jimmy is a good mate of mine and im not sticking up for the post as i dont think this is the same flag/banner but i do believe its from the same source as the one he had in his posession.
I am happy to say i know nothing about SS flags and i am happy in my ignorance! its not my field i have no interest in the flag.
Edit i mean source as in the producer one way or another!

[Howard Kelley]

Hi Guys im sorry to butt in here but what jimmy is saying has a large grain of truth, He had in his possesion an SS banner/flag which belonged to a local dealer it looked virtually identical to this one (im not saying it was this same flag!!!!) It had very similar gromits and the runes and stitching were very very similar (I remember this incident clear as a bell as Jimmy unfurled it in broad daylight on the front step of his house on a saturday afternoon ) It had been passed through two local collectors who are both known to me and they had said it was a reproduction. I am not commenting on this flag/banner as i know less than squat about them.
Cheers
James

Hello James,

Thank you for explaining Jimmy's comments. I took his remarks as a personal attack to my integrity. If I was too brash in my retort I apologize. However, I believe at the time I was justified in my comments. I am trying to take the "high-ground", having more of the story helps me to understand his remarks.

Thank You,
Howard

[jambobbyb]

Hello James,

Thank you for explaining Jimmy's comments. I took his remarks as a personal attack to my integrity. If I was too brash in my retort I apologize. However, I believe at the time I was justified in my comments. I am trying to take the "high-ground", having more of the story helps me to understand his remarks.

Thank You,
Howard

Thank you Howard Jimmy is a good guy im sure his comments were not meant to be a personal attack on anyone they were the facts as he saw them.
I really dont want to start an argument or butt in on a field that is not mine.
Many thanks
James

[sgstandard]

SS Banner

If you can find a loose thread, snip a very tiny piece off and, holding it with a tweesers, do a burn test. Without damaging the banner, try to test ALL the different materials. If they burn to ash, it doesn't actually prove anything. If any of the thread or materials melt, it obviously proves the whole thing's bad. Most fakers know better than to use synthetics, but you NEVER know.

[Robert H]

... and when they don't melt you still don't know as enough old cloth material is availible over in Europe. IMO the black cloth around the grommets should be more aged or kind of damaged as it looks from the pictures. I would take very much care if this one is original or a faked flag, but original SS flags are very very rare to find as we all know.

[jambobbyb]

Mike P as a gift this Banner is a bargain, However just because there are more than this one in circulation that doesnt mean its good,
I have posted here as i had information regarding Jimmys posts.
The collectors involved have no interest in this banner they believe it to be very bad and i for one will not cut my own throat by passing on there contact info.
The dealer who sold it is a law unto himself if you are interested in finding him im sure a few searches will turn the guy up.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Wow! It seems like we may finally have an SS post that won't go haywire over ego again! Great! I'm happy to finally see the attitude that "I may not necessarily be positive about my convictions, so I will agree to disagree, or better yet, be happy to admit that I really don't know enough to say yeah or nay - please enlighten me further if you do!"

This is what will bring Donald back, and his kind . . . keep up the good work guys!

Brad