"Pink" smock or not?

[pete]

.

That trumps my finding veterans Good one mate!

Pete

[kammo man]

Very Good P .

Once again its the source not the item , that needs to be developed .

As regards the buttons , I do seem to remember the condition and the sewing.
On the back side you will sometimes see a small square acting as an double layer for the thread , I have noticed OTHER cammo patterns including a Herring bone type dot fabric which reminded me of the 70s Korean pattern.

something to think about .

I also feel we are getting close to the bones of these NON-SS war-time manufactured fabric items.


owen

[pete]

.

Can anyone show me a photo these said markings?

Pete


"I can state the following: IMO and I believe that I am 99.9% correct in this conclusion, the markings were not placed in these smocks at the time they were made...whether it was 1943 or 1979. They certainly were not placed there to fool any collectors. They strike me as property markings of some type...perhaps theatre or post war storage types. Similar markings were found in many un-issued lots of W-SS (and other services) cloth items some 8 to 10 years after these smocks came to light."

[blamers]

Smock real ???

After all the story's I did find one and did decide to buy one...

When it hits my door I got really exited...
I opened the package., and did feel the cloth..
Not really like the originals I can say.
The cloth is totally different then the originals I know.

( more tecnollogy cloth late war ???)

It's very strange., but they look really like textbook M42...., or not at all...

I have one very nice original M42. Mint ( eichenlauf ).

When you have the elastic band from the sleeves this will smell like an old gasmask..really., and not tight.
The "copy" won't smell at all. And too tight...
Also the cloth is nothing comparing like the original M42.

An original M42 feels like an very thick blanket ., when you roll it through your hand it sounds like carton.
Better fabric.

Nothing., but nothing sounds and feel like the original comparing to the "Pink Smock"

So ., "my" opinion for this smock is totally FAKE.

Mention the "always" chip from the pocket inside..

But this thread is just by a opinion by myself...offcourse.
Respect to all the knowledge of this forum.

Best regards,

Bob Lamers,
The Netherlands

[phild]

After all the story's I did find one and did decide to buy one...

When it hits my door I got really exited...
I opened the package., and did feel the cloth..
Not really like the originals I can say.
The cloth is totally different then the originals I know.

( more tecnollogy cloth late war ???)

It's very strange., but they look really like textbook M42...., or not at all...

I have one very nice original M42. Mint ( eichenlauf ).

When you have the elastic band from the sleeves this will smell like an old gasmask..really., and not tight.
The "copy" won't smell at all. And too tight...
Also the cloth is nothing comparing like the original M42.

An original M42 feels like an very thick blanket ., when you roll it through your hand it sounds like carton.
Better fabric.

Nothing., but nothing sounds and feel like the original comparing to the "Pink Smock"

So ., "my" opinion for this smock is totally FAKE.

Mention the "always" chip from the pocket inside..

But this thread is just by a opinion by myself...offcourse.
Respect to all the knowledge of this forum.

Best regards,

Bob Lamers,
The Netherlands

I appreciate your input, but I would submit that if you compared an original hbt SS smock to a standard original German wartime cotton duck SS smock you would find that the material was completely different as well....of course.

All I am saying is that if these so-called pink smocks were made in a different country and mill/factory during the war.....why would we expect anything about them to be exactly like the typical German produced ones?

I say this because we know that virtually everthing else produced in countries other than Germany for the Germans varied in these SAME (material, color shade and details) from the German item that they patterened after.

None of this is to say it makes or means that the so-called pink smock are wartime orignal, BUT if find it very flawed to write them off as fakes ONLY because there are differences in material, color pattern extensions and other details from known orinals that are came from one maker.

[pete]

.

They are completely different then anything, and 99% of the guys I know who really have handled all the known originals of Smocks over the years dont like them. But still there are questions on them that cannot be answered past the earliest known stories and encounters or by physical comparisons only. The Material is different, the Elastic is old, the material looks and feels different: This gets us nowhere. I would also think there's no doubt we have still not seen everything that was ever made yet! If there can be photos of Smocks that did not survive but were there then although we have no photos apparently of this smock then it doesn't mean it did not exist. I am neither for or against the originality of these smocks but i would like to see our homework done properly.

1) I'm still waiting for somebody on here who can put a sample through a forensics lab to see what the chemicals are made up of in the dye. Then maybe we could compare that to common dyes of the period up until the 70s at least. Some Dye chemicals were not present in clothing before certain times, say the 50s or 60s and then without the restriction of wartime shortages and other materials being used which should show up in Chemical make ups as only possible post war. Maybe it turns out for nothing but its worth a try. A guy in a Lab can do this on his lunch break and doesn't really need much justification internally, c'mon guys...How many Police are on here and how many of you guys can provide samples? I think we have people who can help here if they want to.

2) The second thing I am waiting for is the person on this forum who has photos of the Stampings supposedly observed on other unissued SS Items to answer my request for those photos to be posted in the Pocket of apparently some of these smocks, as well as the unissued SS Items they have supposedly been seen on. With those maybe we could compare to something for a starting point, even if these smocks only officially went through a factory for various reasons and were stamped with the same stamp as to give the checked by number 9 check in the box. Or maybe that factory actually made them.... At least then also we could say they were there when other items were there. As well maybe these stamps are from the post WW2 period and we could see them on say early commie items.

3) I have been told by another here that these smocks may even be connected the Far east area, I would like to know more. Did we not see Koreans with SS style camo (or real) in a Korean war group studio photo at one point? Somebody on here knows a few pieces of this puzzle and will not assist further. Why? I don't know but watch the prices skyrocket if they were proved possibly real, or watch the silence grow to prevent that getting out. If you know they are real and buying as many as you can of course you wouldn't want that getting out....

4) What about the Big idea about the Czech Military museum or whatever it was possibly assisting?

5) Is there one sample of this material that was collected by the US Forces for testing like you see official samples in The Beaver Books? Anybody have access to that? I mean the little square samples in the photos.

6) I think there are people here who know more about the early days of these Smocks as well when they first made contact with the West. AS well there would have to be a trail where these came from and possibly still living people who can be contacted.




Pete

[bubble]

can anyone show me a photo these said markings?

Pete

+1

[pete]

.

Can anyone PM me if this is the supposed Triangular Stamp that is present in some of your inside Pockets, or that you have seen this stamp in the smocks or also importantly on other SS Items. If not, what triangle stamp you have in fact seen at all!

I have no idea if these pants are good i am just interested in the stamp as it is a triangle.

Regards,

Pete

[besslein]

this trousers pair is original,the stamp is most perhaps from museum or movie studio from former Soviet Union.

[phild]

Can anyone PM me if this is the supposed Triangular Stamp that is present in some of your inside Pockets, or that you have seen this stamp in the smocks or also importantly on other SS Items. If not, what triangle stamp you have in fact seen at all!

I have no idea if these pants are good i am just interested in the stamp as it is a triangle.

Regards,

Pete

Pete, Thanks for getting the ball rolling on the markings. I may have access to one with the markings in question. The owner will not be able to scan or photograph it and lives about an hour from me, but I think that I can get it to photgraph in a few weeks. I will send you the photos to post.

As I recall the stamps in it's pocket bag and some others that I saw in the 80s with the the same type of stamps were similar to the onese that you posted.

They were not (IMO) put on by the maker, but were some sort of post manufacture (IMO post period of use) stamps that were applied......they certainly have nothing to do with fake WWII German stamps.

[Felix]

Pete, Thanks for getting the ball rolling on the markings. I may have access to one with the markings in question. The owner will not be able to scan or photograph it and lives about an hour from me, but I think that I can get it to photgraph in a few weeks. I will send you the photos to post.


As I recall the stamps in it's pocket bag and some others that I saw in the 80s with the the same type of stamps were similar to the onese that you posted.

They were not (IMO) put on by the maker, but were some sort of post manufacture (IMO post period of use) stamps that were applied......they certainly have nothing to do with fake WWII German stamps.

Interesting, I have to say. I have been interested in a lot of the questions asked for some time that Pete recently expressed. I would like to clarify, that the pink smock is seriosly in question, for sure. A "bit of negative vibes to say the least - as have been expressed by many collectors with great knowledge" but yet again that is the base for further questions asked here. There is only one way to find out. That is to go to the bottom of this quest.

What does the markings tell us? Who can tell us more about this? Who can connect the collecting commuity back to the missing link regarding the original find and the "speculations"? If the markings are post war or whatever, there has to be some knowledge somewhere out ther to say yes or no. I would welcome "real photos" of the mysterious stamps in the pockets of these Pink smocks. A reference to known post war east European markings would be very interesting.

Please continue

//Felix

[pete]

.

No photos work with the link. As i was saying one person helped by saying that according to his info these smocks may even have a story to do with the far east. According to this link there were Wss items present in Korea. Just one possibility for these.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=ss+korea

Pete

(Communist items section) http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...53#post4992953

[Hilton]

I have seen the triangular stamp before, I think it was in an Bulgarian jacket. If someone would post the photo in the communist block militaria section of the forum I am most certain that someone there will recognize the stamp.

[Felix]

I see that Pete has posted the image of the triangular stamp in the Commie section. In addition I have asked an on-line dealer dealing with Bulgarian militaria to help me identify the stamp, or give further clues. No answer yet. I have also asked the poster in the thread about Korean waffen SS about images as the links does not work, but he did not have them and told me to do a search.

I did an oline search and found images of UNPIK "United Nations Partisan Forces - Korea" using what is claimed to be SS camo uniforms. See pictures below. There is also a Korean war vet bring back in form of a camo jacket with eagle and all. Pictures are below. Eagle is for sure original and the camo jacket also seems original IMHO. There is also a loose eagle as vet bring back, sure original SS BeVo sleeve eagle. The vet reference says that" Brought back by 1LT Kingston Winget from Korea 1951"
These uniforms were supposedly supplied by United Nations to the UNPIK.
This is the Korean connection... No photos of the pink smock though...

The letters in the triangular are russian letters in the cyrillic alphabet: Б. И. Л. or in english B. I. L.
The russian letter in the circle is Ц which sounds like "ts".
For instance in russian language Pizza is Пицца. Or as in the word centre - центр.

//Felix

P.s Yes, I know a bit of russian language

[Felix]

SS camo jacket Korean war vet bring back