WSS officer or not

[Dennis S]

Please read the previous posts on the tunic.

I was able to find out more information on Diesbach from Mr.John P. Moore the noted Waffen SS Officer researcher. I will attach two scans of the front and back of his FuhrerKarte.

Here is what Mr John P. Moore wrote:
Last night I studied the personnel file of Albert n in my Berlin Document Center microfilm. There was 55 pages of various period documents in the file. These include his autobiography, evaluation reports, medical evaluations, promotions, etc. There are no other SS officers of any type with the name of Diesbach or any similar letter combinations and I would concur with the comments of the other WAF members. Unfortunately, none of the documents in the file of Diesbach places him in Holland at any time. However, that was not unusual in the case of officers assigned to the Hauptamt SS-Gericht. The location of the men was always listed as Munich, even for legal officers further assigned to the staff of combat divisions. I would find their names listed in the separate records of combat divisions. I am attaching low-resolution scans of the front and back of Diesbach’s “Führerkarte”. As you can see on the front, he was promoted to Ustuf, in 1939 in the Allgemeine SS. On the back you can see that he was promoted to “Sonderführer” with the rank of Ostuf. in Nov. 1941. A Sonderführer is a specialist officer similar to a Zahlmeister/Paymaster that someone else on WAF commented regarding the tunic’s resemblance. There were no photos in the file.

Anyone want to add opinions or recommendations

[Dennis S]

back

[Dennis S]

What insignia would an Officer of the Hauptamt SS-Gericht wear reference color of piping and collar tabs (blank or runic).
The tunic appears never to have had a cuffband

[Johnny R]

That color is fine for early SS tunics/Police, the color of the collar has faded from time and or light exposure, certain dyes oxidixe and change the color to a green gray. I cannot comment on the insignia but everything else looks fine and unmessed with. Nice named tunic with a researchable Individual.

[Dennis S]

The insignia was added by a collector friend years ago who I aquired it from. I would like to bring it back to how it should look.
The collar color is not really faded much as the underlay is close. It also as I stated, not grey as the photo presents. It is a really soft light green of doeskin type material.

[phild]

The tunic is very typical of those that can be found both in existance today and in period photos that were Dutch made and apparently very popular with W-SS officers. Some of these Dutch made Officer's tunics were no doubt worn by Heer officers as well, but they seem to have been almost a style statement within the W-SS officer corps.

My strong feeling is that the tunic is an SS officer's tunic and probably belonged to the perosn that John Moore provided the information on.

[Dennis S]

Thanks for the input guys.

Please all comments are welcome.

So I would assume, this would be worth restoring properly.

Any advice on insignia selection would be appreciated.

[phild]

Thanks for the input guys.

Please all comments are welcome.

So I would assume, this would be worth restoring properly.

Any advice on insignia selection would be appreciated.

I certainly think so. These Dutch made and in some cases converted Dutch officer tunics are perhaps the finest type made during the 3rd Reich. They also have a strong connection (maybe or maybe not unique) to the W-SS.

I personally am not aware that the SS officially adopted the Army practice of using gray (or gray blue officially) badge cloth to denote SonderFurhrer uniforms..maybe they did or maybe is was unoffical.

Original officer quality boards,tabs and bullion eagle will cost you between 3k and 4k ....assuming that nothing on the tunic now is original...which I'm not suggesting.

The only desicion is the color of the board underlay to be correct for his designation...I don't know what that is. The bigger problem will be find those boards...on the other hand, SS officer very often used Heer boards W/O the balck underlay.

[Johnny R]

Fachfuhrer or the JAG piped boards in purple? Is there any evidence of a sleeve diamond for specialty etc. According to references some fachfuhrers did not where the SS runes but just a blank patch with the rank like normal SS.

[Dennis S]

Fachfuhrer or the JAG piped boards in purple? Is there any evidence of a sleeve diamond for specialty etc. According to references some fachfuhrers did not where the SS runes but just a blank patch with the rank like normal SS.

Purple sounds pretty damn tuff to find. I think the yellow boards are good and the tabs were discussed as being not really liked, but once I take them off we could inspect them better. The sleeve eagle in my opinion is a fake. Maybe if the tabs pan out ok . I can then trade off the signal boards and tabs to offset some of the cost. The tunic is packed away right now but I don't recall any sign of a diamond.

Were Army wire eagles commonly used on Dutch tailored tunics .What do you think the relationship between SS EM eagles and wire ones used on Officers tunics. In my mind though he would not have been anywhere near combat and I think he would have been strutting around with a nice boulion SS officers eagle .Thanks

[Dennis S]

I' am adding these photos for Gerd at Willysproject. Hope these help.
I have since stripped most of the tunic of the post war added inignia. Except for the sleeve eagle(most likely fake) and the EK ribbon.

[Dennis S]

another

[Dennis S]

Original loops above the pocket with a later addition

The loop on pocket was post war added

[Dennis S]

closeup

[Dennis S]

Closeup of the label. the name is Diesback. The third letter on the tag appears as an A but it is a dirty crease making the E apear that way. Mr John Moore states he has 150 pages
on the man, unfortunately no photo. I have not purchased the package from him as of yet, but I will.