a lot of Allach looking for opinions

[Robin Lumsden]

No problem Torsten.

[John1919]

New Evidence for Legitimacy for Both Allach and Bohemia Marks on Bohemia Porcelain

Dear Forum Members:

I thought it might be of interest to post the mark present on an Allach/Bohemia vase I recently purchased (see photo posted at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22525). Both the Allach and Bohemia markings on the vase are present UNDER the glaze (see second photo in linked thread).

The Allach mark on this piece looks nearly identical to the standard Allach marks commonly present on Allach porcelain. Moreover, the standard raised Allach octagon is also present (see second photo in linked thread), surrounds the runes and is UNDER the glaze. The Bohemia mark with the large "B" surrounding the lion is proper for the 1938-1945 time frame during which German occupation of Czechoslovakia occurred.

It might be that the mark on this vase is an early version of the 1941-1945 Allach Bohemia mark with runes inside the large "B" (see third photo in linked thread). There seems to be quite a resemblance between two markings (with the exception of the omission of the word "Allach" and absence of the lion in the more common marking). Perhaps artwork for the final Allach Bohemia marking was not immediately available (or its design was not yet approved) so early pieces were manufactured using an improvised over-stamping of Allach over Bohemia marks.

In addition to the above-described Allach and Bohemia markings, the number "503" is also impressed into the base.

Additionally, I suggest that this new information should lead us to reconsider the possibility that both Allach and other Bohemia markings (such as those on the other items displayed in this thread) may simultaneously reside on legitimate Bohemia porcelain produced during the German occupation of Czechoslovakia.

I welcome your comments and discussion!

Best regards,

John1919

[Vid]

Dear Forum Members:

I thought it might be of interest to post the mark present on an Allach/Bohemia vase I recently purchased (see photo posted at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22525). Both the Allach and Bohemia markings on the vase are present UNDER the glaze (see second photo in linked thread).

The Allach mark on this piece looks nearly identical to the standard Allach marks commonly present on Allach porcelain. Moreover, the standard raised Allach octagon is also present (see second photo in linked thread), surrounds the runes and is UNDER the glaze. The Bohemia mark with the large "B" surrounding the lion is proper for the 1938-1945 time frame during which German occupation of Czechoslovakia occurred.

It might be that the mark on this vase is an early version of the 1941-1945 Allach Bohemia mark with runes inside the large "B" (see third photo in linked thread). There seems to be quite a resemblance between two markings (with the exception of the omission of the word "Allach" and absence of the lion in the more common marking). Perhaps artwork for the final Allach Bohemia marking was not immediately available (or its design was not yet approved) so early pieces were manufactured using an improvised over-stamping of Allach over Bohemia marks.

In addition to the above-described Allach and Bohemia markings, the number "503" is also impressed into the base.

Additionally, I suggest that this new information should lead us to reconsider the possibility that both Allach and other Bohemia markings (such as those on the other items displayed in this thread) may simultaneously reside on legitimate Bohemia porcelain produced during the German occupation of Czechoslovakia.

I welcome your comments and discussion!

Best regards,

John1919

Arggggggggggg,

No, hold on a minute. The initial marking from the start of the topic is a legitimate Bohemia marking from the 20's till ?s, it clearly has the Allach marking added in the same manner as a bunch of new fakes coming out of Europe, they are not even close and one should not take the view of a collaboration regardless of the Bohemia mark being a wartime mark or a period mark. These are fake as Robin stated but the Bohemia mark is legitimate just not for that era.

Bohemia came under the Reichs economic office only after Rosenthal released financial interest in 1940, then you find the wartime mark with the sigrune for 5 years, So someone took a pre-war Bohemia item for export and added the Allach mark in the same manner as new known fakes or its totally fake.

Getting a mark under the glaze is not difficult.

Now your piece???????

Model #503 was one of the original Allach models, don't be fooled by the #.

Allach had manufactured this vase long before 1940, however the octagon would indicate that Bohemia possibly got a mold as there was technical assistance prior to the aquisition of Bohemia, but the addition of black Allach runes is baffling. And Allach made this item in white and color, nothing like this have I seen.

You will find some Allach pieces with period stickers that reference retail outlets outside Allach themselves, why this piece would be dual marked makes it a curiosity for sure.

If this piece which bears the Allach model# and the raised octagon, but the pre-war Bohemia mark as it clearly does, I am certainly at a loss other than to say its the first piece I have seen done in this manner. For a faker to get an impressed model number and a raised octagon with a Bohemia maker mark?? or to add the Allach runes in black of all colors?.

All I can say is I don't believe that to be a fake, it could be a transitional or possible a retail outlet item made by Bohemia as it certainly bears no resemblance to the Allach model.

Pretty wild

[Vid]

Additionally, I suggest that this new information should lead us to reconsider the possibility that both Allach and other Bohemia markings (such as those on the other items displayed in this thread) may simultaneously reside on legitimate Bohemia porcelain produced during the German occupation of Czechoslovakia.

I welcome your comments and discussion!

Best regards,

John1919

Absolutely not! and under no circumstances should this be the case under any circumstances, the fake dinnerware is flowing at high speed with Identical markings and its only a matter of time till they better themselves.

The vase? Well, I am stealing your pictures as if there was some type of collaboration this is the only piece I have seen that would make me consider it.

[John1919]

Arggggggggggg,


Now your piece???????

Model #503 was one of the original Allach models, don't be fooled by the #.

Allach had manufactured this vase long before 1940, however the octagon would indicate that Bohemia possibly got a mold as there was technical assistance prior to the aquisition of Bohemia, but the addition of black Allach runes is baffling. And Allach made this item in white and color, nothing like this have I seen.

You will find some Allach pieces with period stickers that reference retail outlets outside Allach themselves, why this piece would be dual marked makes it a curiosity for sure.

If this piece which bears the Allach model# and the raised octagon, but the pre-war Bohemia mark as it clearly does, I am certainly at a loss other than to say its the first piece I have seen done in this manner. For a faker to get an impressed model number and a raised octagon with a Bohemia maker mark?? or to add the Allach runes in black of all colors?.

All I can say is I don't believe that to be a fake, it could be a transitional or possible a retail outlet item made by Bohemia as it certainly bears no resemblance to the Allach model.

Pretty wild

Vid,

Thank you very much for your comments. I apologize for the color distortion in the photos. The Allach markings are actually the typical Allach green color when observed first hand.

Best regards,

John1919

[Vid]

Vid,

Thank you very much for your comments. I apologize for the color distortion in the photos. The Allach markings are actually the typical Allach green color when observed first hand.

Best regards,

John1919

John,

No, thank you.

The marking without the sigrune would be Pre-1940, but there was a known alliance. 40-45 showed the sigrunes that you posted on the other site but after the company fell under the SS concern. Obviously they got a mold and ran with it, but when?

The pieces in the beginning of the topic show a marking started in 1931 and are marked for export in some cases as well, and then have the Allach mark added. The problem is they ran 7 different markings over their run and when one stopped and the other started appears to be lost. But Bohemia if you have handled it is real good, and the pieces shown in the initial topic are not only not items that Bohemia manufactured, they are not of the quality either.

Bohemia is nice porcelain and most of the time you find it, its a Reutz Kruze or Red Cross piece's with the wartime mark, but dinnerware can be found with both the wartime mark and the mark you show on your piece. But a decorative vase?. Thats interesting.

PM sent as well

Best,

Vid

[TonyS]

I agree with Vid, except I'm going to be blunt - it's a crazy looking fake and I would not add it to my Allach collection if you gave it to me.

It appears to be painted with Jap cherry blossoms........

[John1919]

I agree with Vid, except I'm going to be blunt - it's a crazy looking fake and I would not add it to my Allach collection if you gave it to me.

Do you have a basis for your conclusion?

It doesn't seem like there would be a monetary motivation to convert an Allach vase into a Bohemia vase!

Best regards,

John1919

[Vid]

I agree with Vid, except I'm going to be blunt - it's a crazy looking fake and I would not add it to my Allach collection if you gave it to me.

It appears to be painted with Jap cherry blossoms........

Tony,

Its an Allach mold and the identical model #. There is no way to get the raised octagon and the impressed # unless its new manufacture from an original mold. Being there is no flooding of Allach 503's out there, it would mean someone got the mold. It would not be unrealistic for Bohemia to get one as they must have had many on hand at Allach and Pohl's wife even worked there.

Also, remember the 2 recent Allach Rearing horses, both with the octagon with 2 different model #'s neither matching the Allach number, one was Nymphenburg and the other Eschenbach I believe. Raised octagon wrong # and one had hand painted runes in black. These were clearly fakes and the molds got to other manufacturer's.

I don't think Allach made it, I think Bohemia did, and when you look at Bohemia pieces they use a lot of blue and gray hues, and that style is not Japanese per se. It is deco.

I like what I see from here, the value is not great, but for a true connection to Bohemia, I think it is the closest dam thing I have ever seen and I dont think anyone can discount it as fake.

That is my opinion however, but its a gut feeling and I will play that.

Best,

Kris

[TonyS]

Tony,

Its an Allach mold and the identical model #. There is no way to get the raised octagon and the impressed # unless its new manufacture from an original mold. Being there is no flooding of Allach 503's out there, it would mean someone got the mold. It would not be unrealistic for Bohemia to get one as they must have had many on hand at Allach and Pohl's wife even worked there.

Also, remember the 2 recent Allach Rearing horses, both with the octagon with 2 different model #'s neither matching the Allach number, one was Nymphenburg and the other Eschenbach I believe. Raised octagon wrong # and one had hand painted runes in black. These were clearly fakes and the molds got to other manufacturer's.

I don't think Allach made it, I think Bohemia did, and when you look at Bohemia pieces they use a lot of blue and gray hues, and that style is not Japanese per se. It is deco.

I like what I see from here, the value is not great, but for a true connection to Bohemia, I think it is the closest dam thing I have ever seen and I dont think anyone can discount it as fake.

That is my opinion however, but its a gut feeling and I will play that.

Best,

Kris

Kris,

Even if your analysis was correct, there's an awful lot of ifs and maybes there. With both marks over each other, to me, make it neither one or the other. If there is a precedent for overstamping Allach marks or vice versa for transitional pieces then I have not seen it.

Anyway carry on the discussion......... Maybe you can get Dennis to make a comment.

[Vid]

Kris,

Even if your analysis was correct, there's an awful lot of ifs and maybes there. With both marks over each other, to me, make it neither one or the other. If there is a precedent for overstamping Allach marks or vice versa for transitional pieces then I have not seen it.

Anyway carry on the discussion......... Maybe you can get Dennis to make a comment.

Tony,

I already fired off the pictures to Dennis for his take, from experience he has been more open minded then I in a couple cases, I am usually the hard ass purist with no bend at all, and I am sure you know why this is being in the hobby yourself.

I respect your opinion, and if the piece was absent the octagon I would probably be more critical, but it does not conform to previous fakes in style or markings, the Allach marking is over the Bohemia mark and it is consistent not only in the mark itself but the application of the mark, this is where the fakes falter. It looks to be a period deco piece most likely manufactured by Bohemia and for whatever reason marked Allach.

It could have been submitted for consideration for production, keep in mind the director for Bohemia was a technical advisor for Allach as was Eleanor Pohl. It could have been a one off. But given the 2 markings I would think it was not for resale.

I will let you know what Dennis has to say or he can pop in himself if he see's fit. But either way, I am pretty set in my opinion. But I have been wrong before and I will be willing to debate this piece.

Kind Regards,

Kris

[Vid]

Kris,

Even if your analysis was correct, there's an awful lot of ifs and maybes there. With both marks over each other, to me, make it neither one or the other. If there is a precedent for overstamping Allach marks or vice versa for transitional pieces then I have not seen it.

Anyway carry on the discussion......... Maybe you can get Dennis to make a comment.

Tony,

There is no precedent for overstamping Allach marks or vice versa for transitional pieces at all. There has never been a piece that I have seen that looks like this at all. So if there was a precedent and it existed? this would be what I would expect to see. Luckily the manufacturer used an Allach mold, there is no doubt about it. The measurement is accurate as well. And keep in mind, that if this were a fake and of modern production with an Allach mold, why would a faker who could do such a splendid job with an Allach marking use 2 marks? He could easily have applied only the Allach mark and I don't think I could detect it and the market dictates Allach is the higher value. Its a valid Allach mark, that is the only explanation as it is not designed to be a fraud and who ever manufactured it surely has the means to go textbook and have an easier time at it.

The #503 Vase was not unpopular, but the market is not flooded with them and even if a mold were in private hands, it would be much easier to just mold porcelain with the octagon, but the model # is impressed and not part of the mold. On top of that, whoever made this took an approach of manufacture that was not only skilled but I would say highly skilled.

I spoke with Dennis Porell this morning, and he reminded me of a conversation we had last week regarding this mark and that I had quickly discounted it as doubtful but I had not seen the mark and we talk about these things all the time, so I still don't remember the conversation nor did I ask him for pictures.

I don't want to misquote him but what he essentially said was that he could not discount the piece as not being original as both markings look to be legitimate, but he is also at a loss as to why there would be a double mark.

That Allach mark screams "I was there" I took 20 different original marks and broke them down piece by piece and placed them side by side and that mark is 100% correct and shows every distinctive feature that one would expect to see on an Allach piece.

You take a look at the fakes listed on the beginning of this topic and look how clean and neat the Allach mark is on these fakes that are coming out, they are perfect and why not, they are not done the same way and use current technology in their application. But none of these fakes use any period molds or for that matter any piece of porcelain that is on par with the quality of Allach that was manufactured in the period.

This piece was manufactured right out of an Allach mold and go's way out of its way to look like anything but Allach, to view it on the fly or without looking at the marking would leave any Allach collector walking by it without a second glance as the style is unlike any Allach piece that I have ever seen.

But!! It is not unlike Bohemia in some respects, Bohemia manufactured dinnerware for personalities in some cases as well as pieces for hotel's and the Red Cross. But when you look at their dinnerware they use colors other than the normal white run of the mill dishes that can be found.

I cant remember ever seeing a piece by Bohemia such as this either, but that does not make it so, the marking falls right on the line of 1938-1940 from past experience and the use of the color and pattern reminds me of a set of dinnerware that popped up on Hermann Historica some time ago by Bohemia and attributed to Martin Bormann.

If any Allach collector has any doubt about this piece, all he has to do is grab his pieces and a magnifying glass and look very closely at the marks and their distinctive flaws and then look at this piece and compare it.

That is in my opinion a 100% original Allach mark placed over a 100% Bohemia mark for the time period that directly coincides with technical and artistic communication between the parties involved in both Allach and Bohemia.

Dennis Porell cannot discount the piece, I cannot discount the piece and anyone who believes they can is going to have to have a whole lot of explaining to do, because I am of the opinion it is the real deal. Why is it double marked? I have no Idea but can only speculate, it could have been submitted to Allach for possible production along with other pieces and marked with the Allach as form of intellectual property and put on a shelf for future use or discarded or even given to someone as a gift. I honestly don't know as I was not there.

I like it, but it will never be a piece of high value, and unless a bunch of pieces show up just like it which I doubt highly, it appears to be an original enigma.

Best,

Kris

[Vid]

Here is what logic looks like after 3 days of thought.


When the piece came up in conversation initially with Dennis Porell in the course of a phone call, I immediately dismissed it as fake and that was the the end of it so I thought.

I guess it was a week later that the man who purchased the piece posted it on 2 other forums and that is when I got my first look at it. It is in my opinion the first and only legitimate marking of this nature that I personally have seen. The real deal.

Not being a million dollar piece or a Knights Cross does not diminish the bit of excitement I got when I saw this little vase, its just something that has been chattered about for so long and not one legitimate specimen has ever reared its head, that is until now.

The question among many is why is this thing real? and the answer is pretty simple but pertains to a multitude of aspects that when combined leaves one with no other alternative but to make a call and authenticate it. Maybe I should think twice about doing so, as other's might agree and hesitate to be on the safe side as to who wants to put their name on an opinion that is so strong and then be found out to be wrong. Certainly not a favorable result to anyone with an ego or has spent so much time studying these items. I have both the ego and the time spent, but I will step up on this one without hesitation.

The Passmore/Oliver reference states that the Bohemia works fell under the SS economics concern in 1938, how he came to this conclusion is unknown to me as my information and the marking's dictate differently. There was a collaboration on both a technical and advisory level prior to 1940, however the company did not fall under SS control until that year. This is pretty much solidified by the change in the Bohemia maker mark in 1940 to include the sigrune within the large "B" as opposed to the pre-war lion.

To look at the Allach production figures for model # 503 for 1938 and 1939 show a mere 52 in white produced for 1938 and none in color, and 32 in white and 22 in color for 1939. Small figures for these years considering the larger production of commercial items at this time. Having been under the impression that these pieces were manufactured as early as 36-37 now does not seem so likely and I have no knowledge of any vase displaying the early tell-tale baroque style marking of 36-37. So it may very well have been introduced in 1938. Most of the specimens found are in fact wartime pieces which bear no gold leaf striping in their manufacture, but are certainly more abundant in the market than their earlier counterparts. Without the production figures for 1940 on, it is impossible to say how many were produced, but based on available pieces, it is obvious that these pieces picked up in popularity and production.

The piece is no doubt manufactured from an original Allach mold and numbered 503. This in itself is in stark contrast to any fake that has been put forth in the community on a couple different levels. First, most fakes in the market place are simple plates and cups and pieces that are relatively easy to manufacture with little skill and then give an Allach mark or in recent years a dual Allach/Bohemia mark. These marks are blatant fakes that are clear to see, yet being that little information other than the marks has been available for so long, people have started to buy into the marks other than the pieces.

The second thing to take note of is that it is extremely rare to see the use of an original Allach mold being applied to a fake, the only representative piece that has been noted has been the infamous rearing horse. These two pieces were manufactured from Allach molds, and display the tell-tell octagon that Allach is famous for and each piece was manufactured by a different factory and bear that factory's marks and their individual model #'s that have no correlation to the Allach model #. They are essentially manufactured not so much as fakes but as pieces from these other companies using a wartime Allach mold.

Most of the designers as well as their piece's were manufactured in many cases identically at Allach both before the war and the start of Allach, during the war and after the war for various porcelain manufacturers, in none of these cases has the identical model number been used from one company to another. All the great artisans took the call to Allach and made their pieces in the same manner as they had before, but the model numbers are different, as are the molds.

This is why, most of your fakes are found in unnumbered easy to manufacture items or items that have been altered from their original manufacture by either scraping the model number off, adding Allach runes and probably other little instances of fraud have been noted. It is worthy of note that most all Allach fakes are designed to look like Allach, after all why fake a piece that does not conform?.

This piece takes all these instance's and stands up and says "Screw You" I am a real Allach piece and I don't care if you believe me or not. It is manufactured from an original Allach mold, this should be enough for most, but its not, and to be truthful it really shouldn't be as who knows where we are going with fakes. But then the piece is marked with an impressed #503, this is the Allach catalog # to coincide with this exact piece, this is not noted on any fakes that I am currently aware of that conform in any other manner consistent with Allach without some form of alteration.

The design in itself is deco and although this is correct, it certainly does not coincide with any porcelain pieces sold by Allach, the only real colored pieces by Allach are generally pagan type pieces made of earthenware and fall under a different model line noted with a "K" prefix. Not only is this piece not earthenware it bears no resemblance to any of those pieces either in any other respect. So the piece deviates so far from the norm and the marking is so accurate one would simply have to ask why on earth would someone take this piece and try and pass it off as Allach, especially considering if that person was capable of this degree of forgery of an Allach mark he could certainly mark any fake he wants, but this is an Allach mold.

Fake marks are out there for anyone to see, they are easily picked off in most cases as they do not display the characteristics of an original Allach mark. These marks can vary, however they have tell tale signs of originality that I have not seen duplicated to this point in time. In other words, there is no fake Allach mark to my knowledge that would pass the muster, and even if they got the mark you still have to look at the piece itself.

Bohemia although not as sought after or as fine a porcelain as Allach was indeed excellent porcelain, and when you see it which is actually rare, you can see the similarities to Allach in their manufacture of actual tableware and various piece's. What they did in contrast to Allach in many cases was go outside the box and manufactured colored tableware with subtle hue's and added designs that were for the most part deco in style and had more of a leash for artistic deviations. They just were not held to the same standard and it is clear when you see their pieces that they can vary greatly in artistic expression.

I will not sit here and tell people how to fake an Allach mark or even clue them in, let them figure it out and then they can try the porcelain or do as they please, but I have studied the marks and the Allach mark placed over this Bohemia mark is without question in my opinion, if it were placed in itself I believe even though it is partially obscured that it would be impossible to detect or discount as an original Allach mark.

So why is there a pre-war Bohemia mark on a vase that bears absolutely no resemblance to an Allach piece and why does it have a textbook Allach mark placed over the Bohemia mark?. Good question, I have no farking clue. wink.gif

Actually I do, it is noted in references both period and post war that a technical and advisory roles were played in Allach by Bohemia employees prior to the SS taking in Bohemia as a economic and artistic venture. Most notable of these advisory positions of Bohemia stock is Eleanor Pohl. Eleanor Pohl was no other than the wife of Oswald Pohl, this is the man responsible on the highest level all concerns under the SS regarding to economics, you could not get much higher and he did position himself personally with Allach.

There can be several reasons this vase is marked as it is, all of which are speculation. But the is the hobby of the 3rd Reich and there is no shortage of speculation.

Artistic expression was obviously important and highly regarded within the Reich, it was a huge part of the culture and an accepted artist could go quite far. This is why the greatest designers and artisans were brought to Allach. This piece could have been a piece that involved two artists in a combined goal of artistic expression to manufacture a piece for pleasure, resale, or possibly submittal as a design for Allach to put in the market place. The Allach mold is an Allach design, the art-deco appearance possibly done at the hands of a Bohemia artisan. The finished product would have been a collaboration of porcelain and design and they would no doubt want to take credit for their part.

It could also have been a special gift to someone and involving the same type of precedent where Bohemia was allowed the use of the mold and the artist at Bohemia added the design, both parties taking their artistic due.

Both of these premises are very possible, or there maybe another reason for this piece. But the fact remains it is an Allach mold, the Bohemia mark is the real deal and coincides with the goings on between the parties at that time, and the Allach mark I have no doubt about.

The piece could very well be one of the first #503 vase's manufactured and submitted to Allach for commercial sale, and Bohemia no doubt played a role.

wink.gif

Best,

Kris Lindblom

[mpaul]

A theory and nothing else

This piece has been discussed heavily on other forums and the biggest problem with it the continued statement of "fact" made about it.

The only fact is that it resembles the style of Allach vase model 503. There were 4 different styles in the that shape according to the published information regarding Allach.

I am of the opinion that it is very questionable and would not accept it as Allach, it looks like a Japanese art deco piece. Maybe it was, and was presented to the Japanese for some reason?

To immediately accept it as the Holy Grail is detrimental to those in the hobby who study and collect it.

A lot more convincing is needed here before we start to see other pieces marked in this manner...going against the tide of known marks and accepted because one is stating "facts" that may well not be.

A skilled porcelain repair man could have enhanced a reletively obscure and inexpensive piece to make it a 'one off'. The SS Rider that Dennis sold has been so skillfully repaired one could not tell it had ever been damaged.

My advice is to think long and hard about it before coming to a factual conclusion. The presentation of a theory is all we have here so far.

Mark

[Vid]

This piece has been discussed heavily on other forums and the biggest problem with it the continued statement of "fact" made about it.

The only fact is that it resembles the style of Allach vase model 503. There were 4 different styles in the that shape according to the published information regarding Allach.

I am of the opinion that it is very questionable and would not accept it as Allach, it looks like a Japanese art deco piece. Maybe it was, and was presented to the Japanese for some reason?

To immediately accept it as the Holy Grail is detrimental to those in the hobby who study and collect it.

A lot more convincing is needed here before we start to see other pieces marked in this manner...going against the tide of known marks and accepted because one is stating "facts" that may well not be.

A skilled porcelain repair man could have enhanced a reletively obscure and inexpensive piece to make it a 'one off'. The SS Rider that Dennis sold has been so skillfully repaired one could not tell it had ever been damaged.

My advice is to think long and hard about it before coming to a factual conclusion. The presentation of a theory is all we have here so far.

Mark

This is from a man who says "There is no "historical fact" other than the Passmore book and the Allach catalog. The Pohl tie in is stated in the Passmore book".

Clearly your library is as hollow as your argument.

Allach Mold = Fact
Allach Mark= Fact
Allach Model#=Fact
Legitimate Bohemia Mark=Fact
Fakes in the marketplace using Allach molds=Fact
Corresponding #'s not applicable within multiple entities=Fact
SS Takeover of Bohemia Werks=Fact
Eleanor Pohl at Bohemia=Fact
Technical and advisory roles prior to 1940=Fact
No known Allach mold Fake with corresponding#=FACT
Production figures 1938/39 # 503=Fact
Most fakes Unnumbered and simple=Fact
Art Deco=Fact
Value nominal=Fact

You want to poke me with a stick?? You better read. By the way, there are not 4 versions there are 2. The 4 version were "K" Prefix pieces and not porcelain, they were earthenware. This is not a K Prefix piece. your looking at K503 not 503. Which came white and color.

This piece has every possible argument that could be applied against it tossed right into the garbage, it speaks for itself.


Best,

Kris