Early LAH Boards

[Rigsby]

Hi Gents,
Just to clarify, in Mollo's 'Uniforms Of The SS' volume 3 SS-VT, plate 5 page 56 has illustrations of the early LSSAH shoulder straps and on page 53 the descriptions. On the first pattern em's strap it states to see addenda page 100. Here Mollo states 'plate 5 fig 2, the drawing of the shoulder strap is incorrect. In the meantime original examples of two different have surfaced. The first, in this authors collection, is the pattern worn in the photograph on p34. It is field-grey, with rounded end, large machine-embroidered grey cypher as in the drawing and twisted grey silk cord piping. The second pattern is dark green, with rounded end, large cypher as in the drawing, but in CHAIN-STITCH, and white piping which has a light bluish tinge to it.'
I've got the collective set of the books, so page numbers may vary! Hope this info helps the issue!
Regards,
Rigsby.

[JK53]

Hi Gents,
Just to clarify, in Mollo's 'Uniforms Of The SS' volume 3 SS-VT, plate 5 page 56 has illustrations of the early LSSAH shoulder straps and on page 53 the descriptions. On the first pattern em's strap it states to see addenda page 100. Here Mollo states 'plate 5 fig 2, the drawing of the shoulder strap is incorrect. In the meantime original examples of two different have surfaced. The first, in this authors collection, is the pattern worn in the photograph on p34. It is field-grey, with rounded end, large machine-embroidered grey cypher as in the drawing and twisted grey silk cord piping. The second pattern is dark green, with rounded end, large cypher as in the drawing, but in CHAIN-STITCH, and white piping which has a light bluish tinge to it.'
I've got the collective set of the books, so page numbers may vary! Hope this info helps the issue!
Regards,
Rigsby.

I have first printing of Mollo's books no mention of above, does he give a date for the chain-stitch ?

[JK53]

This is 1 of 2 styles which is still missing in my cyphered LAH-shoulderstrap collection.

I also would really like to know why these are not considered period to you, JK53.

Thanks and rgds,

Markus.

These are suppose to represent the 35-36 period for the LAH guards uniform ?

[TomH]

I have first printing of Mollo's books no mention of above, does he give a date for the chain-stitch ?

Jamie - is Mollo's one of the "all the books from the 70s onwards" that you referred to?

Tom

[markus]

These are suppose to represent the 35-36 period for the LAH guards uniform ?

I'm truely sorry, but I don't understand your question. I'm not in it for an arguement.

I, as well as others, would only like to know why it is that the "chain-stich" pattern boards are a post-war invention.
I'm only interested in that explanation. I do NOT own a chain-stiched example.

By the way Mollo also does not show the small pointed straps with the flowing cypher or does he? (those existed based on contemporary photos).

CheeRS,
Markus.

[JK53]

Jamie - is Mollo's one of the "all the books from the 70s onwards" that you referred to?

Tom

Thanks for posting Tom in my opinion Mollo is wrong on these boards

[JK53]

This is 1 of 2 styles which is still missing in my cyphered LAH-shoulderstrap collection.

I also would really like to know why these are not considered period to you, JK53.

Thanks and rgds,

Markus.

I don't understand how you have 2 styles missing if you don't have any reference to these styles what are you basing your collection on ?
The time frame for these is supposedly mid 35 to early 36 before the introduction of the black board with black/silver piping then around 38 a black board pointed and round without piping with large flowing cypher and small block cypher.Then above with white piping before final black board with round end and branch of service colour and last cypher slip on 5.40.

[no expert]

Thanks for posting Tom in my opinion Mollo is wrong on these boards

Yeah right what does Mollo know

[markus]

I don't understand how you have 2 styles missing if you don't have any reference to these styles what are you basing your collection on ?
The time frame for these is supposedly mid 35 to early 36 before the introduction of the black board with black/silver piping then around 38 a black board pointed and round without piping with large flowing cypher and small block cypher.Then above with white piping before final black board with round end and branch of service colour and last cypher slip on 5.40.

My references are basically contemporary photos showing the straps/boards in wear along with construction, when I hold such straps in hand.

So far I haven't seen a "chain-stiched" cypher in wear on a photo.

When you said "they didn't exist", I had hopes you could explain us why from your own experience/knowledge.

In my own personal opinion the chain-stiched pieces are original to the time and I'm sure some photos do exist. They are just difficult to spot in this particular version.

People told me for years the small pointed straps with small flowing cyphers didn't exist until little-by-little contemporary photos came to light. IMO one of the very rarest LAH straps around !
(Btw, Cook & Bender had that particular version of the strap completely wrong in their book on the LAH, drawing on page 269).

If anyone's interested in LAH uniforms, insignia, documents and above all history (!), don't hesitate to purchase my book on "Teddy Wisch", published by Schiffer in 2012.

Best,
Markus.

[Jeff V]

This one has gone on long enough. It is very easy to post again and again that something is fake with vague statements. If you don't have any concrete proof these are fake do not post anymore.

[Rigsby]

Hi,
Just a thought, why would someone create a reproduction shoulderboard with a chainstitch cypher, when they supposedly never existed? Surely they would copy a textbook example and not something that is unknown! Would be interesting to hear from a member who posseses an original piece and it's background! I'm sure Mollo would not have included the chainstitch example in his book update, if he wasn't sure of the boards origin!
Cheers,
Rigsby.
Rigsby.

[WalterB]

Hi,
Just a thought, why would someone create a reproduction shoulderboard with a chainstitch cypher, when they supposedly never existed? Surely they would copy a textbook example and not something that is unknown! Would be interesting to hear from a member who posseses an original piece and it's background! I'm sure Mollo would not have included the chainstitch example in his book update, if he wasn't sure of the boards origin!
Cheers,
Rigsby.
Rigsby.

Excellent point Rigsby!

[JK53]

These boards are fake in my opinion because they should be sew in not slip on, as shown in the drawing in Mollo’s vol.3 page 30 and M.D.Beaver’s vol.1 page 81 say’s the boards were sew in.All the photos of the LAH Guard Uniform and the Earth-Grey Uniform in my opinion show a sew in board.

Here’s a list of boards for the LAH

Board 1 35-36

Field grey with grey piping LAH cypher large flowing

round ends.Sew in

Board 2 4.36-

Black with black and silver piping LAH cypher large flowing

round ends

Board 3

Black no piping LAH cypher small block/small flowing pointed ends

Board 4

Black with white piping LAH cypher small block pointed ends

Board 5 3.38

Black with branch of service piping cypher large flowing and small block

round ends

5.40 LAH slip on cypher

Acording to vol.1 LSSAH the flowing cypher was stopped in 39 due to fact it looked like the HAL shipping cypher.

[JK53]

Yeah right what does Mollo know

So where do these boards appear in the time line,Mollo gives dates for the introduction of chain stitching for the the SS/VT units been 12.39 and 5.40
when was the green board introduced the SS/VT don't have one to my knowledge ??

[markus]

These boards are fake in my opinion because they should be sew in not slip on, as shown in the drawing in Mollo’s vol.3 page 30 and M.D.Beaver’s vol.1 page 81 say’s the boards were sew in.All the photos of the LAH Guard Uniform and the Earth-Grey Uniform in my opinion show a sew in board.

Unfortunately I don't have the Mollo books (it's a sin, I know...), but if you advance to page 219 in the same Beaver book volume 1 you mentioned, you will see the "Houtjes" tunic with large flowing cypher straps and those are SLIP-ON (I have the same boards and they are 100% pre-45 originals).

Only a few pages further, on page 222, of vol. 1 (Beaver) you will see a contemporary (!) photo of an LAH soldier and his Army pattern field blouse with SLIP ON shoulder-straps with large flowing cyphers.

Therefore, your theory that large flowing LAH cyphers can only be encountered on sewn-in boards is without any doubt incorrect.

Best,
Markus.