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SS-Dienstglas RUKA Rathenow

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    #91
    I have also heard that story about U505, and that artefacts were compiled from several sources. They are, after all, german Uboat items, only not from U505.
    IF the story is true.

    Same goes, btw, for items from U534. I don´t care, but personally, I would spend no extra dollar because an item was supposed to come from U534. If I picked it up from within the boat, yes. And then again, only if I had been present after the navy demolition team had cleared the wreck of all explosives. The next day, I would only be sure that I had picked it up inside that boat, not that it was there the day before.
    ( I have my reasons to be strickt regarding U534 artefacts)

    Regarding the well known US military museums, I have read how their collections/items were collected, during, and immediately after, WWII.

    But if some nice US officer presented them with a STG44, with a ZF4 mounted in, say, 1947, would, or did, they accept that and include it in the collections?

    I don´t know, and I have no way of knowing. Maybe they do keep records, including such gifts, maybe not.

    In 1947, such a rifle could have been manufactured, and sold to a US soldier stationed in Germany. Maybe even made to order.

    To me, that is a possibility, and in no way either unlikely, or dishonest.

    Today, it will easily fit into the "prototype" brackets. Workmanship will be excellent, and consistent in every way with german WWII manufacture.

    So, I am not saying something bad about national US museums. Only that even they may have items, which may not be original to a collector.


    One note about the "knowing" thing. I have in recent years seen magnificent items in an array of area´s where every sign of being original was present. Only later to learn, that they were in fact reproductions, sometimes even with details about, who manufactured them.
    I have learned, that I cannot trust my impressions. This is where several decades of collecting has brought me.

    We have probably all seen those stainless lugers who came out of China some years ago. Easily spotted, and not pretending being old. Point is, someone can make lugers again.
    On to those, who faked a series of krieghoff´s (I think it was) down to even the direction of the toolmarks in the machining of every single part.

    Now that, to reproduce even whole rare lugers, to me, is an example that shows, if something cost money, there are people out there that will supply, and with impeccable credentials.

    50 years from now, some may come out from museums, and then, who will remember the fakers of the 80-ies.?

    Comment


      #92
      Ss

      Mike,
      Your comments apply to anything we collect not just SS items. Everyone needs to use references and other resources available to make decisions regarding the authenticity of an item. The vast majority of forgeries in optics are easy to spot. If one is not confident in their collecting ability and they cannot determine the difference between real and fake then they should not collect in that area. I am confident in the area of optics and firearms. Doubt I would be fooled by a totally fake Krieghoff. Now daggers, that's a different story and one of the reasons I do not collect these items.

      Comment


        #93
        Originally posted by Mikedenmark View Post
        Regarding the well known US military museums, I have read how their collections/items were collected, during, and immediately after, WWII.

        But if some nice US officer presented them with a STG44, with a ZF4 mounted in, say, 1947, would, or did, they accept that and include it in the collections?

        I don´t know, and I have no way of knowing. Maybe they do keep records, including such gifts, maybe not.

        In 1947, such a rifle could have been manufactured, and sold to a US soldier stationed in Germany. Maybe even made to order.

        To me, that is a possibility, and in no way either unlikely, or dishonest.

        Today, it will easily fit into the "prototype" brackets. Workmanship will be excellent, and consistent in every way with german WWII manufacture.

        So, I am not saying something bad about national US museums. Only that even they may have items, which may not be original to a collector.
        As discussed in another thread - considering the boundaries of what is "possible" or “impossible” is an unfalsifiable argument and doesn’t have any place in what should be a fact based reasoned discussion. It is not "impossible" (and therefore is "possible") that Himmler put one of my SS M35 helmets on his head and danced naked. However, absent evidence it is not worthy of consideration or discussion.
        Last edited by sszza2; 01-14-2014, 01:00 PM.

        Comment


          #94
          Originally posted by Mikedenmark View Post
          PS. Bill, I think it is a Goerz Bino, he is holding.
          No, Goerz has not issued binoculars with this type of ocular.
          Most likely, this binoculars of Ruf & Co., Kassel.

          Comment


            #95
            faked SS binoculars as can be found in Tons in ex- East block antique markets

            Hi
            yup!
            total fake...
            Go to Kiev antique market...
            plenty of them..
            sold for 65 Euro...
            some even have soil or earth on them.
            Total big HS
            Sorry!
            Cheers

            Comment


              #96
              HJ-Marseille

              Hi HJ-Marseille,
              I think we ALL are aware of your opinion that all SS markings are fake and no discussion is really needed.

              Comment


                #97
                Hi Bill Parker,
                My point was not only the faked markings, but the place where you can find these and in which state and for what costs.
                Apologies if my english was not clear,
                Cheers

                Comment


                  #98
                  Your English is better than my German!

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Thx Sarge!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Bill Parker View Post
                      Hi HJ-Marseille,
                      I think we ALL are aware of your opinion that all SS markings are fake and no discussion is really needed.
                      Bill,

                      Obviously you need to accept HJ's premise that just because some SS marked binoculars are fake all are fake. That and HJ knows where to buy such fakes. Given such overwhelming evidence - case closed. Apply these same criterion to other areas of collecting and you will see the inescapable logic. Some helmets are fake - so all are. Some daggers are fake - so all are. Some medals are fake - so all are ....and so on.

                      Move towards the light Bill. Drink the Kool-Aid and you will be a much happier ex-collector!

                      Scott

                      Comment


                        On me please...the drinks.
                        thx to all for your great comments.

                        Comment


                          Another Ruka that was snapped up quick...

                          http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ww2-ruka-g...vip=true&rt=nc

                          Comment


                            an original one !!!

                            Comment


                              ss dienstglas

                              I have been following these posts with great interest for a while now, and can see both sides of the argument, to my mind its quite logical, and can be boiled down two scenarios as far as the rathenow binos are concerned, either 1) rathenow made and stored a fairly large consignment of 6x dienstglas pre war ( and they are pre war,as I have taken a few apart, to clean them,as I have many hundreds of others),these were not used and at the end of the war or some time later some enterprising individual discovered them ,bought the lot and began to engrave them with the deaths head etc,or 2) they are genuine,and sometime in the thirties when the ss were on the rise,Himmler or whoever decided he wanted to set his troops apart,(as they did with their smocks,decals on their helmets,badges etc they would also have their insignia on their own binos,there is bound to be someone on the ss collecting side of things on this forum that knows of a few of the old ss comrades that are still alive and kicking,anyone asked them yet if they can ask some of the suvivors if they remember using any of them?

                              Comment


                                I doubt if many pre war binos were stored until after WW2. Looking at the serial numbers they don't seem to be in any single batch either. Maybe certain units had them locally marked themselves?

                                As to veterans - if the SS was as numerous yet the skull binoculars so rare, it would be a million to one shot to find a veteran that actually used a skull bino - many are in fact pictured using standard Dienstglas, donated civilian and captured British binoculars. Worth a shot though!

                                Comment

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