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    #31
    Originally posted by David Fettes View Post
    1. First you claimed I didnt know what I was talking about ....
    2. I have proved you wrong...
    3: It is up to you to prove...
    4: ...I will be happy that I have learned something new for the week...
    5:...is not what this forum is all about.
    6: This is meant to be a serious discussion yet you resort to throwing mud. Not cool.
    -1: No, it's not a claim, IMO technically more like a public guess
    -2: No, your collection photo does not prove anything
    -3: No, I do not have to prove anything to you
    -4: Good luck with that
    -5: The WAF members might have different opinions of what the forum is all about
    -6: No, this is a serious discussion. Mud?

    Regards, Loke
    Attached Files

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      #32
      Originally posted by Loke View Post
      -1: No, it's not a claim, IMO technically more like a public guess
      -2: No, your collection photo does not prove anything
      -3: No, I do not have to prove anything to you
      -4: Good luck with that
      -5: The WAF members might have different opinions of what the forum is all about
      -6: No, this is a serious discussion. Mud?

      Regards, Loke
      This is getting silly, you say my own collection proves nothing yet show your collection to prove you know it all. By your own reasons your collection also proves nothing. However that is not my point of view. It is a very nice set up and there are items there i would love to have, not all of them, just some.

      By all means with the period proof, I would hope you could prove yourself right. The truth is out there somewhere, its just finding it that is the issue.

      You have accused me of being a troll, dont try and say you didnt. My opinion is as valid as yours, yet you still continue to be rude, this is against the forum rules.

      Please stop throwing mud in my direction, stick to the facts and lets discuss this in an adult manner, saying things like "your collection photo does not prove anything" is not helping.

      Finally have you ever seen a Kreigsmarine marked mustard pot?


      .

      Comment

        #33
        Originally posted by David Fettes View Post
        1: ...You have accused me of being a troll, dont try and say you didnt...

        2: ...have you ever seen a Kreigsmarine marked mustard pot?
        1: No, not directly. But it seems like for some reason I did hit a weak spot.

        2: No, no. 1 on your most wanted KM porcelaine list?

        Regards. Loke

        Comment

          #34
          Hello,

          yes, its an RAD chart and this is mentioned. But the charts has nothing to do with the text following about the KM porcelain.

          Also I do believe that the list is very "legit" as it is part of the overall equipment list of the submarine
          http://www.porzellanfieber.de/Hinter...n-12bis17.html

          I was skeptical about the colors (red, green, without) at first that it makes sense for me now.

          For the black and yellow, I am still very skeptical.....

          Regards
          Christian

          An btw, its a shame to what this thread has turned...

          Comment

            #35
            Originally posted by km-spain View Post
            Not have ever seen the color dark-blue and silver for the Beamter, have you seen it?, can you show any?
            Please can you tell me something about this point the silver-black stripes?

            Thanks
            Collector of Kriegsmarine and Küstenartillerie items

            Regards
            Eduardo

            Collecting Kriegsmarine !!!: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=725610

            sigpic "Deutsche Kriegsmarine"

            Comment

              #36
              Originally posted by Loke View Post
              no. 1 on your most wanted KM porcelaine list?
              I would be happy to find one for any branch of service, it is the only item I have never found.

              Comment

                #37
                Originally posted by compressore View Post
                Also I do believe that the list is very "legit" as it is part of the overall equipment list of the submarine
                I have my issues with the list:-

                1 tin opener für Unteroffiziere.
                Silverware für Oberfeldwebel but no mention of any for Offiziere.

                Either it is not complete or it is wrong, I would be quite happy to have a look at the original list.


                .

                Comment

                  #38
                  I know what you mean but I think the listing is not complete. Look in the officers section its jumping from number roman I to roman III...

                  It is just not listed....

                  I will try to find out were this list comes from and if there is the original somewhere.

                  Comment

                    #39
                    Interesting discussion and nice pictures, but please dear colleages collectors, don't get into personal yes-no discussions. eace
                    The use of the different colors has been orally confirmed to me by a former KM member (landbased).
                    My point of view: in the german navy WW2 every category of personel had its own dinner facilities and used the appropriated colors. If you were invited at the admiral his table, you would use his yellow-blue colored china. Note that mixing up ranks was quite exceptional in peacetime. I presume that on board of a uboat this theory was not stricly applied. But on the other hand, if you look at the pictures of the officers stateroom on u-505 or some u-boat commanders nipping at a cup of coffee on the bridge: the china has colored rings!!
                    Maybe someone can ask proof tho the KPM company, which still exist? Christian, its your mother tongue!
                    https://de-de.kpm-berlin.com/kpm-ber...hmen/historie/
                    And did someone found a KM marked mustard pot?
                    U-505EnclG436.jpg

                    Comment

                      #40
                      http://www.thepirateslair.com/intern...rine-navy.html

                      additional intresting link

                      Comment

                        #41
                        Originally posted by David Fettes View Post
                        The canteen ware was totalitarian, the extra cost to produce a different colour ring for each officer / beamte class was too great.

                        What rank are the plain ones meant to be then? Lowest of the low?

                        You walk into a mess area and you identify who is an officer by looking at his plate? No chance, you look at the rank on his uniform.

                        If anything I would expect Officers (high ranking ones anyway) to have fine bone china, not chunky, run of the mill, standard canteen ware but with a coloured ring on it.



                        .
                        David
                        The KM had separated messes on land and on larger ships for each catagory: sailors; NCO; portepee-NCO; Officers and Flag Officers.

                        Comment

                          #42
                          Of course the items had coloured rings, I am not doubting that as I have some.

                          Of course there were different mess areas, what i am doubting is the ring colour donating different ranks.

                          I feel it was what was ordered by different areas. As I have said coloured rings can be found on DAF canteen items, however this does not equate to any ranking system. It is just decoration.

                          Heer canteen ware does not have coloured rings to denote rank, neither do the Luftwaffe or Waffen SS ones. So why is it accepted the Kreigsmarine ones do?

                          I have in the past contacted a few china companies on other issues with wartime canteen ware. The infomation that they will supply is very limited and sometimes they deny supplying the Wehrmacht at all!

                          If a period work is found to show they are the ranks, then I will accept that and move on. Until then...........

                          Comment

                            #43
                            Originally posted by glaser View Post
                            ...If you were invited at the admiral his table, you would use his yellow-blue colored china...
                            Having the Admiralität trays below for years, I always thought the stripes were yellow/black. After reading Glasers comment a closer look has revealed the truth: They are indeed yellow/dark blue.

                            Further, does the Beamte porcelain have grey/blue not grey/black stripes?


                            Regards, Loke
                            Attached Files

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                              #44
                              Nice items Loke.

                              Now I will show why I am very carefully and indeed very spectical about the rings being for different ranks.

                              The following are all for the DAF and are just coloured decoration.
                              Attached Files

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                                #45
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