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**kevinpre45** · 01-02-2015, 02:34 PM

No Dude

Mr Hollywood
I didn't mean you! I was just making a point. Im relaxed. I must say this crappy weather is causeing some "cabin fever" Im sure those dudes know everything there is about SS stuff never said they didn't. But to set there and say Im not a "serious" collector and misquote me has nothing to do with there "extensive" knowledge of SS Material.
Kevin
PS Wheres my link to the late War garbage can?

**Mr. Hollywood** · 01-02-2015, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post

mr hollywood

ps wheres my link to the late war garbage can?

haha

**Blacksmith Life** · 01-02-2015, 02:47 PM

Kevin - please forgive me for pointing this out, but....

I'm not sure that using terms like "Fn", "GD", "flyn f", tons of exclamation points, etc, encourages rational debate.

I agree with your assertion below: If it upsets you to that point, why bother?

If your counter-argument is that you feel others are behaving badly, then maybe - as Gandhi said - be the change you want to see.

This discussion does not have to divide us as collectors. We share a passion for helmets, what else matters?

I'm sure if we could all discuss it over a round of our favorite fizzy drinks, it would be much easier. I think the relative anonymity of forums makes us neglect our humanity at times.

Best regards.

Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post

Hello
"And you've been persistent in trying to silence the critics of the SS theory from the get go."

That's a GD lie! Show me one text to support that Fn lie! Ive never even said they were SS! All I asked was for people to lighten up alittle and quit the sh1t slingen! As far as my point on text books and experts they had to start somewhere! Go back and read my post I just want to know what these are! As far as the Merry go round goes If it upsets you to the point of insults name calling and now outright lieing why bother? Stay on board! I don't give a flyn F!
Kevin

**NickG** · 01-02-2015, 03:09 PM

Lets focus on the topic. No mud slinging!
I am not pushing the SS theory, it was just a possibility. based on vet accounts and (iffy) photographic record...local CZ input (depot...)
but nothing factual or verifiable, nothing concrete....but we need to look at ALL possibilities, ALL avenues why these exist!
So if these aren't WW2 made for Wehrmacht war needs (because the spec is off according to the purists, even though there was a clear need)
and if post war assembled from war time parts (after receiving a new finish)
it happened circa 1946 (based on chin strap date).
Certainly liberated W.Europe had no customers for such helmets in circa 1946...they were turned into cooking utensils, strainers even...
or just scrapped for metal value... (Norway is an exception and Finland a former Ally, as was Bulgaria that used these post war as well)...

Also Middle East looks unlikely, no need in Egypt, things heated up in the 50's when they imported USSR style Czech helmets) and they were still very much in the British realm of influence in 1946... and Israel was arming its self with the establishment of that nation, but that was 2 years later (1948) so there was no Israeli government yet to order these in that "spec" and again in my view unlikely as its a Nazi identifiable piece of equipment....a dead end to me!

Perhaps these were destined for a South American nation ?
(cancellation? embargo?).
These photos show that the Argentinian army with big time German influence as we all know... (Same with Chile) but darker helmets !
They did not mind looking German in the 1940's...(unlike Israel)
They were arming and there was a need (example Ecuadorian–Peruvian border conflict but that ended in 1942)
Any South American members with ideas? Is it a color that would make sense? or is identifiable to a certain nation (and just appears to be RAL DunkelGelb?)
I am just throwing it out there! and sorry for the pictures Doug, I'm into pictures + that gets people's attention and provokes thoughts! (a tactic)

PS: as an after-thought:
The fact that these have a Czechoslovakian armed forces property stamp (based on Kangaroo's example) I would make the case these were NEVER intended for export (in desert color) ! Why assemble them for export needs and property stamp them for local needs?) so refurbished /built for local needs. (not emergency services...wrong color, not CZ army (some exceptions but why rebuild so many and not use them...that costs money in war torn 1945-1946 devastated CZ...Reich territory and bombed...due to its industry, rebuilding was their focus)

So options: war time German and left over or Postwar CZ use...?) The export cancellation story a lazy explanation...but worth investigating still!

BTW strange things happened to helmets (destined for other countries)

http://www.therupturedduck.com/H-253...rhe-H-253a.htm

.

Attached Files

**DougB** · 01-02-2015, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post

As far as them being postwar/wartime that has yet to be proven either way.

Kevin the burden of proof is clearly to prove they are wartime. They do not fit with any refurbished wartime German examples, period.

If they are wartime your 20 helmets go up in value am I correct? Even if you can say "it is not proven" (which is how most fakers shill their goods I am sure you would know given your a serious collector) the seed of doubt is planted.

So, stop cheerleading and making accusations about personal attacks which never happened and asking people to get off the thread if they dont like it, and spend the time and do the research needed to build a case that these are unequivocally are wartime.

But the attempt was made to ram that train of thought through as fact in a 56 page thread over a matter of days.

I am afraid it will take much more work than that. Are you willing to do that work?

**kevinpre45** · 01-02-2015, 03:25 PM

Indeed

Doug Just tryn to learn. and blacksmith you are correct sir 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Kevin

**PAB** · 01-02-2015, 03:29 PM

The guy in the side car has a box(unseen) he is just about to open it. I wonder whats in it? Baron Hardcastle's hat or maybe Wishy washy's plimsoles, or even Aladins lamp. or could it be?

We can not allow conjecture and take over fact and proof. This thread when it started out was a dead duck, at best its given those who want to believe war time period or even SS somthing to direct and add creedence to their theories again without proof and we know how easy it is to pull the wool over a novice's eyes. So this thread should have a health warning from the mods. It does not serve the collecting community imo.

**DougB** · 01-02-2015, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by NickG View Post

Lets focus on the topic. No mud slinging!
I am not pushing the SS theory, it was just a possibility. based on vet accounts and (iffy) photographic record...local CZ input (depot...)
but nothing factual or verifiable, nothing concrete....but we need to look at ALL possibilities, ALL avenues why these exist!
So if these aren't WW2 made for Wehrmacht war needs (because the spec is off according to the purists, even though there was a clear need)
and if post war assembled from war time parts (after receiving a new finish)
it happened circa 1946 (based on chin strap date).
Certainly liberated W.Europe had no customers for such helmets in circa 1946...they were turned into cooking utensils, strainers even...
or just scrapped for metal value... (Norway is an exception and Finland a former Ally, as was Bulgaria that used these post war as well)...

Also Middle East looks unlikely, no need in Egypt, things heated up in the 50's when they imported USSR style Czech helmets) and they were still very much in the British realm of influence in 1946... and Israel was arming its self with the establishment of that nation, but that was 2 years later (1948) so there was no Israeli government yet to order these in that "spec" and again in my view unlikely as its a Nazi identifiable piece of equipment....a dead end to me!

Perhaps these were destined for a South American nation ?
(cancellation? embargo?).
This photo is the Argentinian army with big time German influence s we know.They did not mind looking German in the 1940's...(unlike Israel)
They were arming and there was a need (example Ecuadorian–Peruvian border conflict but that ended in 1942)
Any South American members with ideas? Is it a color that would make sense? or is identifiable to a certain nation (and just appears to be RAL DunkelGelb?)
I am just throwing it out there! and sorry for the picture Doug, I'm into pictures + that gets people's attention and provokes thoughts! (a tactic)

NO problem on pictures Nick. It was the repeated use of them to prove a point that I took issue with as you have addressed. Perhaps you can PM Kevin and ask him to chill out. It would be nice to read the thread without his repeated overheated comments.

Honestly now it is throwing crap on a wall and seeing what sticks as to see why they were refurbed.

I feel unless someone wants to spend a ton of time offline doing real research into the helmets and spend the money to make the acquisition of hundreds of examples and time to spend with the collaboration with other collectors of hundreds more, it is all mere guesswork over something that really matters little in the grand scheme of things, unless you own 20 of them of course.

The mere presence of a 1946 dated Cz chinstrap on the helmet does not date these to 1946 no different than the presence of a 1943 German liner dates them to 1943.

These could have been refurbed in 1948 for Cz police, Cz border guards, a base coat before they were to be painted black for Cz fire, export to Argentina, Israel, China (they wore M35s after all) or just painted like this for storage so they wouldn't rust out for some future use nobody knows about and its lost to history now.

So the "mothballed" theory is one I present now.

These helmets were for nobody. They were made on spec for a possible export market that fell through and failing that for some future unknown civic use.

They were painted and refurbed sometime after WW2, when is not important.

When there was no export market they were simply stored and forgotten about until the early 80's when they were rediscovered and sold as postwar refurbs as they've been for decades now in Europe and the US.

There. Thats my theory. And I'm sticking to it.

**kevinpre45** · 01-02-2015, 03:33 PM

Helmet poll

Hello all
the helmet poll reflects a different story.
Kevin

**DougB** · 01-02-2015, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post

Hello all
the helmet poll reflects a different story.
Kevin

The helmet poll is a waste of time and was created at the zenith of the thread where evidence was being shown to be "fact" when it was not.

Run a poll on a postwar cloth SS item and 56 pages of innuendo and photos that are not related to the subject matter, rinse and repeat.

You will get the same poll results.

Poll helmet collectors who live breathe eat sleep and crap this stuff. I am sure you will get a different response.

In the end a poll doesn't make something real that is not.

**kevinpre45** · 01-02-2015, 03:45 PM

Helmet Poll collector?

Doug
What does that mean?
Kevin

**BROBS** · 01-02-2015, 03:46 PM

A poll means nothing.

-Brian

**kevinpre45** · 01-02-2015, 03:51 PM

Poll

Hello
So are peoples opinion nothing? Unless of course you have the "right" vote?
Kevin
I still want to know what a "helmet poll collector is"?
Kevin
Did "Lil Kim" take over the forum?

**BROBS** · 01-02-2015, 03:53 PM

If you make a poll on whether or not the Holocaust happened, and the results indicated that it did not happen.... does this mean that it didn't happen?

-Brian

**kevinpre45** · 01-02-2015, 03:55 PM

Moon Landing!

The same could be said about that!

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