My new DAK helmets

[NickG]

Yes collecting is fun. I've been doing it since 1974.... I am not exactly a new comer...nor naive...please!
15500 posts almost...not a new member either...(34 posts?...big talk!)

Here is my collection thread...ALL of it ....and it has not been updated in a long time btw...
dormant well over a year...so there is much much more.. About 108 pages worth....
Give or take 300 mannequins worth... I lost count...
I will post updates! A lot of new exciting material...panzer, Feldgendarmerie...you name it!
bye!
And happy new year to all...good luck with the hunt in 2015!

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...cks+collection




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[Dennis S]

Nick , With the helmet discussion/ argument set aside . You are a gentleman maybe an enthusiastic one to a fault , regardless of the opinions of you from the small, egotistical and boorish.

[kevinpre45]

Name calling!

"Chris if you want to be a prick, go ahead. But I will bite my tongue" From DOUG!
Well Mr Hollywood? Prick being the key word there! I bet if I put it to you that way youd go tell a MOD! Now wouldn't you?

Kevin

[Mr. Hollywood]

"Chris if you want to be a prick, go ahead. But I will bite my tongue" From DOUG!
Well Mr Hollywood? Prick being the key word there! I bet if I put it to you that way youd go tell a MOD! Now wouldn't you?

Kevin

Not sure what you mean Kevin. Are you asking me if I would run to a Mod if you called me a name? If that is your question then my answer would be no. Never have, cant say I ever would.

[90th Light]

Hi Chris, yes and to sum up, it is merely a theory that these can be SS, and it is a theory they can be Israeli, Romanian, or postwar whatever.

The evidence thus presented can be viewed through one of three glasses, the first two are tinted. 1, to wanting to see them as SS, 2. to wanting to believe they are postwar, or 3, just taking an interest to see what they are.

I have been amazed at how the first pair of glasses have been worn throughout this discussion, hence my vocalization about the unanswered anomalies.

When there is a theory there cannot be any anomalies. Otherwise the theory dies. So I am trying my best to view with no glasses to see what they are but taking exception to there being no explanations for other evidence pointing to the contrary of them being German (SS).

With respect to the qvl helmets, they postdate the need for a tropical helmet thus being replacements as you suggest.

With respect to the the RAL shade, it matches Warsaw Pact colors as posted on GHW. Any paint color can match in any era. Just because a paint shade is close to another does not make it wartime German. Look at the many faked camo helmets today, all matching the RAL shades of paint. Only they were made in someones garage a couple of weeks ago.

No explanation for what factory would strip textured paint off, repaint, domestamp, then distribute these when common practice was to overpaint reissued helmets.

The longtime collector also has a photo album that goes back and I am wondering if he has a pic. That said, he has a photographic recall on helmets, ask anyone who knows him, he can bring up facts about individual helmets from decades ago. It is uncanny. I am not saying they exist, but when he talks about a helmet, I listen.

The helmet posted with the Cz marking under the tan RAL colored paint is clear evidence these are postwar painted. GHW Member Kangaroo who is Cz has further insight into these as posted there.

So yes I agree Chris, these may or may not be postwar or wartime. But all the evidence including the small details have to be looked at. If these are to be wartime AND for the SS, then it must be indisputable. We are a long way from that.

Cheers, with respect

Doug

Doug,

first let me state, I have not got rose coloured spectacles on. I cherish pragmatism over idealism any day of the week

The strength of the SS case over the possible post war export countries is two fold;

1/ The helmets were found in the same part of the CZ where there was an SS depot for issuing tropical uniforms & other items.
2/ The SS wore a mono-tone tropical helmet in a sand/ tan/ brown shade. Very few if any had the SS rune shield on the side.

Now I know I keep repeating this like "water torture" to use your words but these are two facts that can not be ignored or denied.
Ok upon reflection may be I have pushed this too hard. For many reading this, there is still a missing link or two before we can say with any certainty that these are SS.
Thus I accept the resistance to the SS notion but I want to stress that based on the two reason stated above, this is still a viable avenue of inquiry that may hold the key.
However, I am take on board how you see the SS possibility but equally I am not letting it be dismissed as a simple joke. The reality is we do not know.

We both agree on the "qvl' shells. It will be interesting to see who made my example.

I agree that any shade of paint can be matched up these days and that there is no reason why this shade of RAL shade was not used for some time after May 1945 . However, on this point we have a had a real break through. When I first bought my helmet, collectors swore black and blue that the paint was a post war epoxy. They stated there was no way that paint or shade was used during WW2. Hopefully we have now laid that incorrect collector folklore to rest.

As far as the lack of texture to the paint goes, I have a M42 which has seen extensive use during WW2 which is painted a smooth field grey colour. Thus all I can say is a smooth texture is rare but it can happen. If necessary and again when I get time, I will post comparative images

Helmets from fire bombed factories were stripped and repainted. Fire seriously damages the protective properties of paint. By 1944, the Germans were having to recover inventory from totally bombed out areas and move it to existing viable production facilities to continue production. This was a directive from Speer. They also increasingly relied on cottage industry and small sub-contracted assembly. Why could this not apply to these helmets ? After all the SS refurbished blood soaked and battle torn tunics at Ravensbuck.

Any photos or recollections from any collector/ veteran are of use on this thread. There is no harm in any collector bring information to the table regardless of how obscure it my appear. One can only imagine what some could be sitting without realising what they have.

As far as the "Cz marking under the tan RAL colored paint", I agree very interesting and a discovery. However, anything can be faked. I am not saying it is a fake but I am saying lets look at it from all angles. Like the dome stamps. Now if we find more examples then we definitely are on to something. At this stage why just one given how many of these helmets were found in the 1980's ???

I repeat, I remain open minded to war time or post war. I am looking at all evidence including the small details and I agree we have some way to go on this.

Also with respect,

Chris

[kevinpre45]

Who found and bought them???

Hello all
Who was the first person to buy these? Certainly someone knows! How were they bought? CZ surplus sale? They just "appeared"?
Kevin

[Mr. Hollywood]

Hello all
Who was the first person to buy these? Certainly someone knows! How were they bought? CZ surplus sale? They just "appeared"?
Kevin

Based on an email from Bill Shea: He was present in the late 1980's at the Max show when a retired Army guy was shopping these around to the different tables by "the crate full". He had several boxes full of these helmets still wrapped in paper, and hay.

The seller had stated that these were post war Chek helmets used by Chek, and created for export after WWII had ended. He also sold them as such.

I cant say whether Bill was the "first person" to buy these helmets, but his account of time and location does match with other dealers who were at the same show.

This is a photo off Ken N's site. Notice the front shells, and all the black painted ones. My understanding is that these are still readily available in Czechoslovakia by the bush loads.

[kevinpre45]

Odd timeline

Hello
In 1980 the "wall" was still up? Was CZ exporting military items at that time?
I didn't see one till early 90s. But thanks for info. interesting. I was in US ARMY 86-90 and the CZ was warsaw pact.
Kevin

[kevinpre45]

I got what your sayn.

Mr Hoollywood
In 1980 we had no trade wih CZ. The Cold War was still pretty warm!
Keivn

[Mr. Hollywood]

Hello
In 1980 the "wall" was still up? Was CZ exporting military items at that time?
I didn't see one till early 90s. But thanks for info. interesting. I was in US ARMY 86-90 and the CZ was warsaw pact.
Kevin

Re-read my post. I corrected a part of the info from Bill. I pulled up his email to me and made the correction.

[kevinpre45]

Original Post

Mr Hollywood
In your first post you said max show 1980. Late 80s make aliitle more sense.
kevin
However I don't think CZ disbanded from WP till 90-91.
I could be wrong on that.

[kevinpre45]

Black Overpaints

Mr Hollywood
I havnt seen one of the tan ones for sale in quite some time! I do like that one tan one in pic!
Kevin

[Paul.B.]

Hello all
Who was the first person to buy these? Certainly someone knows! How were they bought? CZ surplus sale? They just "appeared"?
Kevin

Karl Kithier states on his website that he first discovered these helmets in
Prague in 1985.

[kevinpre45]

Bill Shea!

Hello
He certainly knows his stuff! I love his website!
Kevin

[kevinpre45]

Thanks Paul

Hello ! whats his website?
Kevin