Originally posted by msteve21
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I have to disagree with that point, as that was obviously war-time done in several specific cases. -
These are not just " thoughts" , it's (1) the statement of at least 1 vet who was asked about the issuance of these in Prague andOriginally posted by jerryrehr View Post
(2) the (changing) opinion of the Czech collector's community, based on what's been discovered over the years. The dots do collect...
thanks to shared internet knowledge.
So mint unissued Italian camo parkas (from that same source) were also post war assembled for a foreign contract or Czech military use?
Why would refurbished post war assembled helmets come with (as an example) 1943 dated liner pins and war time German codes/nomenclature? and come in war time German ordnance paint? Why? Answer that question!
Many were distrusted and stripped for the parts, why is that? because ALL the parts are 100% genuine, so if ALL the parts are genuine,
why on earth can't the entire helmet come like this pre 1945? Ask yourself that question. I am with the Czech opinion!
Why not? Please elaborate. We want solid reasons/explanations, not vague Easter-bunny remarks without a position!
These are simple questions to answer.Last edited by NickG; 12-06-2014, 03:07 PM.Comment
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Vehicle NOTEK back light in late war German ordnance tan, unissued NOS sitting on the shelf, left over wartime produced stock in original factory finish
and M42 helmet inside look... also unissued stock, so no sun fading, no UV exposure, standard virgin German RAL spec equipment paint!
Where are the red flags on these??? I don't get it...What is there to doubt? Really?Last edited by NickG; 12-06-2014, 03:38 PM.Comment
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NOTEK front ...A large batch (front and back sets) was recently found in France...untouched...
(comparison under different lighting conditions...)
Like the title of this thread reads incorrectly, these were misidentified as fake DAK and immediately discredited when they hit the market because the color... which was not DAK tan and not overpaint...
Totally different animal, different period but still period made with genuine parts and paint. (IMO reconditioned/assembled during the war).
or perhaps I am severely color blind?Last edited by NickG; 12-06-2014, 03:56 PM.Comment
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I have made no comments or given an opinion on these helmets , but I am interested in hearing any fact based information you may have . In order to enlighten the believers , please tell them what you know. I can't imagine you are mocking them as children without some actual fact based evidence......or are you?Originally posted by jerryrehr View Post
Personally, I haven't seen any evidence one way or the other. Only conjecture from second to third hand information and rumor from those that think they are post war...........and pro wartime opinions based on loose photographic information with only possible and plausible theory .Comment
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True Dennis, no big amounts of hard evidence has surfaced...but the vet's recollection based on memory is a start that he received one in Prague along with SS Sahariana kit...(where many remained unissued), this prior to deplying to the Med! This is a solid clue and first infomation shared by another WAF member who got the album. (directly from the family no doubt!)
I think that is a good start for the believers + all the circumstancial evidence, parts, geography!
AND he is pictured wearing one in the photoalbum even..."X"
To me that is not circumstancial ! He even recalled turning it in after ending his occupation duty in Greece!
BTW look how uniform all these helmets appear, not a field painted job!
The nay sayers who reject war time use have not come up with anything solid at all thusfar!Last edited by NickG; 12-06-2014, 04:20 PM.Comment
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Well funny enough, if you researched each of these, you would find that what is repeated today over and over again is also nothing more than myth that is past down from one generation to the next. The grass root facts are quite different from the images we now believe. For example the role Coke-Cola played making Santa Claus red and white in the 1930's.Originally posted by jerryrehr View Post
However, moving on from the issues that are the concern of children. I remain open minded both ways on these refurbished German helmets.
I would welcome any more images of the helmets being worn by Egyptian foreces in the period 1950's to 1980's to see what was and was not being used. Could those who feel this thread is not correct please post their findings, evidence, photos and facts.
There are two very interesting realities coming to light;
1/ I never realised that these sand/ tan/ brown helmets found in the 1980's in the CZ, were found in a SS distribution depot where they fitted out SS soldiers for tropical fronts. Not only were the helmets found but all sorts of other SS tropical & other uniform items. This distribution depot was within the geographical areas covered by certain Wehrkreis developed by the Germans during WW2. The parts used in to refurbish these helmets fit the applicable Wehrkreis. I did not know that and that is a significant finding on why these helmets were made and who intended to use them.
2/ I am yet to see an Egyptian solder wearing a German M42 helmet. If the Egyptians or any other nation was wearing refurbished WW2 helmets then you would think they would have had more than their fair share of M42's to buy after WW2. I know the Norwegians used M42's after WW2 and I have seen photos but so far no photos of such use in the Middle East.
I repeat, I remain open minded but so far those who say refurbished during WW2 and even SS tropical are clearly in the lead on this one and those who say post war are falling further and further behind,
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 12-06-2014, 04:35 PM.Comment
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A great thread which I follow with interest.
I hope this matter can continue to be discussed in a constructive way in order to get a final consensus.
Regards
Jan'Arzt und Soldat'Comment
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I would like to know too! and I would like to do a poll!!! WHo knows how to set one up?Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
Please provide proof that the believers are wrong on this one... as I regret buying one!
Turn up the volume!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs6IwkTPVusComment
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Veterans Story
Hello all
If the Vets Story isn't proof enough what is?
KevinComment
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2/ I am yet to see an Egyptian solder wearing a German M42 helmet. If the Egyptians or any other nation was wearing refurbished WW2 helmets then you would think they would have had more than their fair share of M42's to buy after WW2. I know the Norwegians used M42's after WW2 and I have seen photos but so far no photos of such use in the Middle East.
As I said early on the story that was told was "that these helmets" never made it to Egypt.
Dennis JComment
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Good Idea NickG. It wont prove anything but Theories are just that theories. Until I see a smoking gun I will stick to conventional wisdom on these helmets. Buts ifs and could haves just don't make it for me. Too many conspiracy style theories for me. I remember them when they came out 25+ years ago and will continue to believe they are anything but ww2.Originally posted by NickG View Post
JerryComment
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Well the "conventional wisdom" on these that's been preached (post war and Egyptian but not delivered) is 2nd and 3rd hand info that collectors passed on over the years, basically nothing but rumors...which started in the pre internet days when there was limited knowledge and understanding and info access limitations...we now have the internet and 1st hand info from a German vet who was there and received one.
The question why these were built using 100% original parts including original paint has never been answered. Had these been built like this in standard feld -Grau this thread would not even exist.
Again a very simple question: what makes these NOT WW2 production? The color?
Why? It's not some kind of Egyptian paint scheme (or Czech), it's a RAL standard , an official German armed forces color from the war.
Why is this so incomprehensible?? Why can it not be German production, a period reconditioning project for a certain theatre of operations.
Nobody can answer that? Because of decade old rumors?
(That it is impossible)...why is it impossible...? Absolutely nobody has given good arguments on that viewpoint...NONE..
So far just hearsay that it's not ww2 production. Because earlier DAK supplies did not come like this....? that's already explained!
They were rushed to that theatre to bail out Mussolini! Continental gear got modified in the field to include vehicles...different time, different situation.
When the Germans went into Greece in 1940 because the Italians could not get the Greeks forces to capitulate, there was no tropical gear
to speak of...however mid, late war all the troops were kitted out with proper tropical gear...and because it was primarily occupation duty not many photos exist of such helmets being worn..(other than funerals, parades, ceremonies) but they were there as the SS pictures show.
This is beyond plausible...the period photographic record proves it. issuance primarily to the Polizei Division...Greek theatre.
So why not SS decals applied you may wonder? (1) these are "camo" helmets and (2) decals were on there way out! Simple!
Actually most SS piths lacked shields (also coming from Prague area), those with the light beige trim edges, now all turned into LW piths...
again lack of knowledge in those days...Last edited by NickG; 12-06-2014, 09:24 PM.Comment
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Yes but equally Dennis,Originally posted by Dennis J View Post
there is absolutely no evidence that they were ever going to go to Egypt or even intended to go there.
We still do not know who refurbished them, when or why.
However, what we do know is that there was an SS depot in that part of the CZ that was issuing uniforms to SS soldiers going to tropical fronts.
We also know that large quantities of SS unforms, Pith helmets, web belts and other items have been found in that part of the CZ.
I can not help but wonder if the SS also had a stock of steel helmets for tropical issue from that CZ depot and what those helmets looked like.
Now is the fact that we have a hoard of unexplaned sand/ tan/ brown Steel German helmets found in the 1980's in CZ and an SS uniform depot in the same part of the CZ a coincidence that can simply be ignored or just brushed to one side because someone some where came up with a simple theory that such helmets must have been a cancelled post war order for Egypt ???
At present which theory has more facts or validity in favour of it being right ?
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 12-06-2014, 09:38 PM.Comment
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I would like to see these in person, but these are not something I would have
in my helmet collection.
TomComment
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