Another comparison: Canister image borrowed from another thread
To me that's clearly 1943-1945 RAL "DunkelGelb" German paint...
To me that's clearly 1943-1945 RAL "DunkelGelb" German paint...
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MG42 lafette (web obtained images for comparison), all standard German "ordnance tan" DunkelGelbLast edited by NickG; 12-04-2014, 02:33 AM.Comment
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One of the helmets that started this thread + original panzer paint in bottom image...Comment
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I think that it is impossible to tell what kinda helmets we see in the funeral pics ..
Many branches had totally yellow/tan painted helmets ..
Jos.Comment
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Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
Hi Kevin ,
Very interresting that you have so many of these helmets kept over the years.
I really would like to know if all these helmets were refittet with parts of the same maker.
As far as I can remember some of these helmets I owned years ago had chinstraps from G.Singer , Klattau liners from B&C Litzmannstadt and
split pins from MSS (Matthias Salcher & Söhne Wagstadt)
If you have your helmets at hand , could you have a look ?
Best regards
BernhardComment
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Yea Kevin that would help out a whole lot...thanks in advance.
Dennis JComment
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"I saw that also J-L, but dismissed it... That could just be lighting effect...shadow area appearing darker..."
Well it seems a bit daring to me to accept what suits your theory for one side of the helmet, while dismissing the other side.Comment
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One I had in past had Litzmannstadt liner and Singer Klattau chinstraps as you described it. Let's see what others will write about it.Originally posted by Bernhard View PostComment
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A very interesting threadComment
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Well why would one side of the helmet skirt appear light and the other side appear dark at the same time? One side of inner skirt painted and the other side not?Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post
That makes even less sense to me...It's a lighting issue..a shaded area under the skirt...
I do agree with the comments that these images don't really prove a firm SS link but what I do know is that there is a direct link between SS tropical (and other theatres) storage in Prague CZ and that these tan helmets are also coming from there. That is not a coincidence, that's a fact. Czech resistance fighters emptying those SS inventories is also a fact based on photographic evidence that I posted...
Also a fact is that on most of these the parts are German and the paint appears to be RAL Dunkelgelb. All those factors point to one thing to me; these helmets were being wartime refurbished but mostly unissued, hence the condition and local Czech collectors now also see that link. It is not that far-fetched to me!
When these helmets hit the market 24+ years back there was hardly any internet to speak of and the content was poor... so little reference availability, far less knowledge and probably little understanding of RAL color codes...Nowadays you can buy paint that's computer color matched to those codes, but not back in those days... and why would post war Czech emergency service use (pick) a German color on their (post-war repainted?) civil defense helmets? (+fire repainted black) and why would the Egyptian army pick that color if these helmets are refurbished for them? Military procurements meet strict standards and recycled helmets would be adopted/modified to meet those standards, to include a paint color choice. So the German helmet deal got cancelled and the Egyptian military picked Russian helmets instead, so were those helmets delivered in that same color? (an Egyptian standard?)
I find the Egyptian connection far more daring than the SS Südfront use connection. These never left the depot in the numbers that were available so they automatically got discredited, die to the availability of the volume that flooded the market ...so of course became questionable and we have seen that before... just like the G43 pouches initially, as the market got overwhelmed with brand new looking (mothballed period) stock...so people become leary...suspicious...Last edited by NickG; 12-04-2014, 02:52 PM.Comment
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Assuming that the skirt is painted yellow, what evidence does that bring? There are many known examples of helmets repainted in yellow, in which the skirt was also repainted. Proper photo evidence would have to show the inside of the dome of the helmet as well. It is very unlikely that such a photo exists because photos showing the inside of a helmet are so rare.
For me personaly, if they are post war, or wartime unissued stock, it changes nothing. Sat on a shelf as of Jan 1945, or sat on a shelf as of JAn 1946, what difference? I collect WWII militaria for its history of use during WWII. An unissued item is uninteresting to me. That is just my personal view of course.
I have yet to see a convincing example of such a helmet that was recovered from the battlefield.
Here is the commonwealth equivalent of these factory painted yellow helmets: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=south+african
JLComment
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Here's a comment from the warrelics forum on such a helmet...
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One theory is that these were a new factory configuration (insert period rebuilds) and were intended for southern russia when the tide of war changed. (insert Sudfront)
When i took the liner out the pins were stamped 1943 so that supports that theory. However the chin strap supports the other theory. The colour is not quite the same a german desert colours either.
__________________________________________________ ____________
The helmet pins being war time dated I find very significant (as well as the liner and band with RBNr) just does not make sense for these to be post war...
Unless of course they used 100% left-over war time spare parts in the late 40's and 50's????
Some with post war parts were just post war repaired for Czech civil emergency use using Czech parts at a later stage.
Now if all had been like that (mixed parts) , well than the Sudfront intended use theory is kaput! but that's not the case! To me there is a good chance that these are war time depot queens.
The color does not support German tropical because thse are not DAK helmets...they are 1943 or later reconditioned helmets (post AFrioca campaign) in Dunkelgelb einheitzfarbe for Mediterranean use
(by W-SS?) but most never left the depot in CZ...
Maybe less valuable than actually used helmets but nevertheless WW2 collectables, just like minty SS Sahariana tunics and minty Italian camo made SS parkas...all from CZ btw!
That's not circumstanmtial, like the cancelled Egyptian contract fairy tail story and than diverting these to Czech civil defence.
More likely W-SS left overs diverting to and repaired (where needed) by Czech civil defence!Last edited by NickG; 12-04-2014, 04:55 PM.Comment
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I concur... very interesting. I find that the circumstantial evidence or indirect evidence are building a good foundation for the original OP questions and observations.... proof of a chain of facts and circumstances validating these helmets. Too bad there is no color photos.... yet.Originally posted by coloradocowboy View Post
I also find it interesting to see, although not surprised, the original OP and a couple of others to be attacked in the beginning for their questions, observations and opinion. And now that the circumstantial evidence is becoming stronger, I hear nothing but silence from them... it will be interesting to hear from those individuals that were wrong in attacking the OP and apologize to them for their arrogance and ignorance. This is not directed at all the individuals that believed that these helmets were post war, as it appears that most were misguided by the so called self anointed "experts"
But I think we all know who those individuals are... just par for the course for them. I noticed also that the most knowledgeable and season collector's are the most open minded... as we "all" still have much to learn about our hobby and in life.
I give a big thumbs up to the two individuals (and the Nick(s)) that stood up to the naysayers to get to this point in this thread. I for one am leaning to the fact that these are WW2 helmets. Looking forward to more interesting evidence, direct or indirect.
@JL... I do agree with your opinion that even if these helmets are found to be WW2, as a collector, they would be of little value to myself, as I personally like to collect the helmets that were in the thick of things. But still I would not mind owning one of these now... (I see dealers smiling now...)
Great thread...
Jim
PS. Gentlemen, remember, there is no shame in being or admitting we were wrong.Comment
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Thanks guys, very entertaining thread, if any nay sayer has one left plse send me a PM with yr asking price !Comment
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Try Kevin as he has 20 them....he might sell you one.Originally posted by kapitein View Post
Dennis JComment
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