My new DAK helmets

[Jos L C]

So, these pictures are the proof ?

Jos.

[Dennis J]

I still don't think they are ss helmets but post war remakes from orig. helmets ,with orig. liners and cs.....jmo.Like the Italian one I showed you.

Dennis J

[90th Light]

So, these pictures are the proof ?

Jos.

I see what you are saying Josh and do not disagree,

However, to quote a judge in a court case; " in the absence of any other evidence coming to light "

Ever since these helmets came on to the market, I have followed them with interest. When this thread started, I was not convinced one way or the other.

The photos of the SS Pol. Division wearing helmets which appear (black and white photos ?) to be painted this strange tan/ brown/ sand colour is certainly one of the best set of a possible match that I have seen. Also we have the account of the SS veteran who owned the photo album. He was issued with such a helmet while on tropical service in Greece. This helmet was issued to him in the CZ during WW2 and returned to the CZ during WW2 when he handed it back.

To date this is a lot more than I have ever seen of any soldiers in Egypt wearing such a helmet after WW2.

Also I have been collecting other items painted with that tan/ brown/ sand paint. To date I have 2 belt buckles and 1 Jerry can. Hardly overwhelming evidence. But all 3 items are New Zealand veteran brought back from Italy so it makes you wonder.

Keep in mind that I was told, the paint on these helmets is a post war epoxy and that is the give-away. Thus we have had it tested over here, it is not epoxy and it is a type of paint that was in use in the early 1940's and after the war.

Am I convinced
Not yet but I am balancing the pros against the cons. At this stage the evidence for the helmets being WW2 is growing.

I would love to see an inside image of those SS helmets being worn in post number 92 onwards to see the inside colour of the rim of the helmet

Best regards, Chris

[Edelweiss]

Let's keep an open mind

Very interesting and informative discussion.

My thanks to the very few who are facing the hoard (in which I could have been if I still was as impetuous as I used to be in my young times), and who brought here some matter to think about. The scales were too unbalanced till now, due to the heavy weight of a general consensus mainly based - I (we ?) have to admit it - mainly on (persistent) rumors. Whatever the story, only one sound of bell is never enough to get a clear picture of it.

Best regards, Chris.
(bis)

[drempfer]

Will post similar helmet

Thank you all for this great thread ... a lot to catch up on. Thanks Chris "90th Light" for pointing it out to me. I believed the "Egyptian contract, Czech ordered" story for about the last 10-12 years or so. I bought my helmet from Caravano in Paris in 1998 thinking it was original pre-1945 paint and sat through many years of storage. I paid a very fair price at the time, not a price conducive to a DAK pedigree. A few very knowledgeable collectors at the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College disappointed me with the Egyptian contract story, hence the helmet has sat in a box wrapped in packing paper for the last several years. I'm going to take pictures and post it.
Please let me point out the obvious, that is, the obvious way that I see the Czech dispute: if it is a pre-1945 paint, done in CZ, then I would refer to this as a German painted helmet, not Czech. The area in question was, at least for a time, TR territory. Like my CZ27 pistol with Waffenampt markings on all pieces: to me, it's a German pistol. Just my point of view. Of course it is a Czech design, made in current day Czech territory. This is indisputable. However, it's a German gun ... For the reasons I stated. Again, just my point of view.

[Paul.B.]

I would like to add that the majority of camos we see are helmets issued to a soldier then painted to suit the theatre of war they are in at that particular time
we constantly see helmets with multiple coats of paint from obviously different theatres and seasons.
My point being I find it strange an SS police unit would be supplied with a helmet of the appropriate colour in CZ then go to Greece then return the helmet to storage in CZ
then what go to Russia and be supplied with what? a white helmet? and what of
the poor old helmet he was issued with to start with?

[90th Light]

I would like to add that the majority of camos we see are helmets issued to a soldier then painted to suit the theatre of war they are in at that particular time
we constantly see helmets with multiple coats of paint from obviously different theatres and seasons.
My point being I find it strange an SS police unit would be supplied with a helmet of the appropriate colour in CZ then go to Greece then return the helmet to storage in CZ
then what go to Russia and be supplied with what? a white helmet? and what of
the poor old helmet he was issued with to start with?

Good point Paul,

and worth serious consideration. However, we do not know if he went straight to Russia in a combat role. There are several other possibilities such as return to Germany in between, more training, administration role. My understanding is that certain combat equipment & weapons were collected back if the soldier was no longer on a fighting front and he received a new issue when he went back to the front.

Soldiers who were transferred from one front to another in a combat situation had to change their camo to match the terrain before battle.

Just a thought,

Chris

[Dennis S]

It is my understanding that they were issued new tropical uniforms at that time also.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Chris is correct, the troops were issued new kit upon redeployment.

While not pertaining to these CZ/Egyptian helmets, this brief quote from Helmuth Orschiedt of the DAK 33rd Art Regt, 15th Pz Div. mentions the change from tropical kit to grey in Germany when returning from Afrika. Then after further training in Germany & returning to Afrika, back again from grey to tropical kit. Here is his story...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=340303

"September 1941 to June 1942: 26th Training Course at the Artillery School Jueterbog. Of course we changed to feldgrau (field grey) uniforms. We learned all the tricks of sophisticated artillery shooting. Over the weekends we drove to Berlin quite often, arriving at the Anhalter Bahnhof (no longer existing). We had a nice hotel, saw movies, went to shows, operas and theatres. I also visited my father who had been transferred to a regiment in Russia but got very ill (pneumonia) after 3 or 4 weeks and was flown back to Berlin for treatment. I left Artillery School with the rank of Fahnenjunker-Wachtmeister (Ensign-Sgt.) and was routed back to the reserve battalion. The day before changing uniform and equipment to tropical garment, I fell sick with scarlet fever: 8 weeks quarantine in the hospital! In the radio I heard of the DAK-attacks in North Africa and the successful advance into Egypt and the conquest of Tobruk"

[Bernhard]

Very interresting thread so far !

I was in the northern Prag area in 1992 and visited a fleamarket
for old motorcycle and car parts in Kladno and found some helmets there.

Among some VZ 20 helmets I also got two of these sand colored helmets.
I do not own the anymore.

Here are the pics from 1992 !

Best regards

Bernhard

[dragnet]

I would like to add that the majority of camos we see are helmets issued to a soldier then painted to suit the theatre of war they are in at that particular time
we constantly see helmets with multiple coats of paint from obviously different theatres and seasons.
My point being I find it strange an SS police unit would be supplied with a helmet of the appropriate colour in CZ then go to Greece then return the helmet to storage in CZ
then what go to Russia and be supplied with what? a white helmet? and what of
the poor old helmet he was issued with to start with?

Im with Paul here, why change the way of painting a helmet just for one unit, doesnt make sence to me Post war i can imagine that these could have been refurbished for a new contract.

[trevor87bikes]

Surely them pics of the ss with all the same colour helmets posted don't prove they was issued to that ss unit like that anyway ...I have seen pics of a whole unit with similar multi colour helmets and they certainly wasn't issued like that

[NickG]

I would love to see an inside image of those SS helmets being worn in post number 92 onwards to see the inside colour of the rim of the helmet

Best regards, Chris

This is a good solid theory or assumption, the SS use of tan helmets. The Egyptian contract theory is also just an assumption, but less strong I feel. More like a wild guess!

Here are the facts:

We know that the SS had a huge supply Depot in Prague where the majority of the SS parkas and Italian camo parkas in unissued conditions came from.
That same depot had tons of tropical clothing such as Sahariana shirts, Sahariana uniforms, caps and pith helmets.
So naturally they also stocked loads of matching tan painted helmet, all refurbished, hence the variety (M40, M42 styles mixed).

There was such an abundance of left over gear that Czech Police used post war Saharianas and the Czech army used SS parkas and gear etc...
This image taken in 1945 shows Czech resistance fighters after raiding this Prague Depot now wearing unissued SS tropical uniforms taken from that depot towards war's end
or right after the hostillaties ended.
Besides Sahariana uniforms they wear pith helmets, adding Czech insignia to the front of the helmets + resistance armbands.

[NickG]

SS tropical gear is not very wide spread documented in period pictures and where it was documented most often no helmets were worn...due to hot climate conditions (field caps are the norm)!
SS units transferring to the Mediterranean theatre were issued tropical kit coming from this depot to include helmets. (That is not a guess, like the Egyptian contract story!)

Even at the end of the war SS units on the continent were sometimes issued SS tropical uniforms, as there was a shortage of Field gray and apparently an abundance of SS tropical kit.
Veterans of SS-Kavallerie-Division Maria Theresia have stated that they were issued tropical kit , never leaving for Greece or Italy...(and even pictures of Volkssturm exist in SS tropical gear)

Since helmet wear in hot climate tropical regions by SS troops is less often photographed, while on occupation (non combat) duty in Italy or Greece, they are worn on ceremonial occasions.
This includes funerals. (note Sahariana uniforms)
Here some pictures of a funeral of a senior ranking SS member and uniformly tan painted helmets are being worn as the regulations dictate. Proof of wide spread use!
Sorry for the quality (pictures of pictures), but it shows these were issued in big numbers and many remained in the depots too...

[NickG]

More...sorry for the lack of quality...Note photographer's SS sahariana shirt!