Questionable Schulterklappen, Tropenuniform on the E-Stand ?

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hello Tim,

where have you got this information from Tim that one of the sets of shoulder straps issued, was for the shirt ?

Chris

Actually read this recently in Dal's great book "Rommel's Army in Afrika" which I have been reading again over the Holidays. Though dated there is still lots of information to draw from.

[Tim O'Keefe]

I believe he intended to say "and one for the overcoat".

That's what I thought too. But then read the other possibility.

[Tim O'Keefe]

As I understand it,

Soldiers going to Afrika in 1941 were issued with two tropical tunics and two pair of tropical shoulder straps. A pair for each tunic

The tropical great coat raises the question of another pair of woolen tropical straps for that garment. Thus a third pair but I am not sure on that ??? May be the great coats were issued with straps already attached ???

There was no issue of WH tropical straps for the WH tropical shirt. Any that you see in period pictures are tunic straps being worn on the shirt and involved exchanging between the two garments as needed,

Chris

That is correct. Two Tunics & two sets of straps. To be used on either the tunic, the shirt or maybe the coat as needed. Need to l look into the issue of coat straps still to be sure...
.

[Sprachfuehrer]

+++
Ende Gelände, habe nichts mehr zu sagen
+++

[Tim O'Keefe]

After a little further research believe there were three sets of straps issued to each solder in 1941. Two tunic strap sets and the other an overcoat set.

Here is a single nebel strap also being offered by Sprachfuehrer. This is the best looking of the fakes at $380euros.

Want to thank Glenn for linking the sales thread to this thread

[Tim O'Keefe]

Here is a Recon/Kav set also for sale from Sprachfuehrer sent to me from another member who is a DAK strap collector. For sale at only $420euro the pair of Recon ? Hardest tropical waffenfarbe to find of all. These straps seem to all be made by the same faker, but who ?

Noticed the sales thread has been pulled from the WAF no doubt the straps will now appear somewhere else for sale. But this thread has served it's purpose.

Thank You to everyone that contributed, this is what the WAF is all about

[90th Light]

After a little further research believe there were three sets of straps issued to each solder in 1941. Two tunic strap sets and the other an overcoat set.

Here is a single nebel strap also being offered by Sprachfuehrer. This is the best looking of the fakes at $380euros.

Want to thank Glenn for linking the sales thread to this thread

This one looks to be copper brown recon on my monitor. And it looks to be a good one,

Chris

[90th Light]

Here is a Recon/Kav set also for sale from Sprachfuehrer sent to me from another member who is a DAK strap collector. For sale at only $420euro the pair of Recon ? Hardest tropical waffenfarbe to find of all. These straps seem to all be made by the same faker, but who ?

Noticed the sales thread has been pulled from the WAF no doubt the straps will now appear somewhere else for sale. But this thread has served it's purpose.

Thank You to everyone that contributed, this is what the WAF is all about

This pair is worth careful study, investigation and comparison with known originals,

Chris

p.s. the yellow piped recon single strap in post number 1 is also interesting i.e. Sage-green twill with wool piping but probably too good to be true

[Schulterklappen]

Tropen Schulterklappen

Tim asked me to share my opinions on these and I will do so. They are my "opinions" for what they are worth depending on your perspective concerning these pieces. There just too many questions and the negative aspects outweigh the positive for me.


The Tropen Nebel strap appeared some months ago on the MFF. At first, I thought it might be a good piece. Then the Kav/A.A. pair appeared; so, you have a rare single and a pair of enlisted straps. The pair sells for what I would consider to be a suspiciously low price. You just do not see that many enlisted pairs of tropical straps for sale and they get snatched up immediately. The price is usually commensurate with the rarity.


The Tropen Nebel strap has been for sale for a while and not sold, why? Now, you have similar straps appear and several having the NCO tresse loop "embellishment".


With the price commanded for these pieces it is always wise to be cautious. You see people getting hung with dubious pieces everyday in this hobby. The insignia aspect is no different. If you can perfect a copy it certainly can be lucrative.


When the Kav. A.A. pair and Nebel single were first were listed, I showed the pictures to three other collectors, whose opinion I trusted and they all considered them dubious. Now you have two more long time collectors, in OSS and Pauke, casting doubts.

[Hans Kristian]

All my dealings with this seller were positive. He’s always been upfront and honest with me, even at the expense of losing a sale. I know that certain items are very rare and accurately reproduced. Even the best of us are tricked.

I agree 100%...

[Sprachfuehrer]

Moin an alle
Was kann hier sagen...
Wenn ich jemandem Schaden angerichtet habe, zahle ich das Geld zurück
Wie es anständig und üblich ist
An manche Redner:
Die Meinung von Fachleuten nehme ich in Anspruch
Aber ihre Anschuldigungen gehen direkt ins Eimer
Die Effekte sind ordnungsgemäss gekauft
Ich habe Rechnungen, ich kenne den Dealer und den Sammler
Hier ist kein Gerichtshof und sie sind keine Geschworene

translate.eu

Hello to all
What can say here...
If I've hurt someone, I will pay back the money
How it is decent and common
To some speakers:
I take the opinion of professionals in claim
But their accusations to go directly into the bucket
The effects are properly purchased
I got bills, I know the dealer and the collector
This is not a court and they are no jury

[90th Light]

Tim asked me to share my opinions on these and I will do so. They are my "opinions" for what they are worth depending on your perspective concerning these pieces. There just too many questions and the negative aspects outweigh the positive for me.


The Tropen Nebel strap appeared some months ago on the MFF. At first, I thought it might be a good piece. Then the Kav/A.A. pair appeared; so, you have a rare single and a pair of enlisted straps. The pair sells for what I would consider to be a suspiciously low price. You just do not see that many enlisted pairs of tropical straps for sale and they get snatched up immediately. The price is usually commensurate with the rarity.


The Tropen Nebel strap has been for sale for a while and not sold, why? Now, you have similar straps appear and several having the NCO tresse loop "embellishment".


With the price commanded for these pieces it is always wise to be cautious. You see people getting hung with dubious pieces everyday in this hobby. The insignia aspect is no different. If you can perfect a copy it certainly can be lucrative.


When the Kav. A.A. pair and Nebel single were first were listed, I showed the pictures to three other collectors, whose opinion I trusted and they all considered them dubious. Now you have two more long time collectors, in OSS and Pauke, casting doubts.

I very much respect what you have posted here Schulterklappen. Add to this the straps you have handled, your experience and opinion in regard to the matter. Equally I respect the opinion and experience of the other collectors who you mention in this post.


However, these wise words that Ben posted on a couple of other threads should be added to this thread because they are a reality of the situation;

the fundamental common sense rules of collecting this stuff have been thrown out the window.

Those rules are:

Judge the item and not the seller.
Don't judge the item by association with the sellers other items.
Judge the item when you've got it in your hands, never judge from photos alone.
Base your judgment on your own knowledge and research, don't blindly accept the opinions of others.

Also, judging authenticity based on the asking price and whether it woulda, coulda, shoulda sold already is a massive mistake but that's just my opinion.

I could not have summed it up better myself and I will add one more point to this, always get two opinions from at least two different quarters of the square.


That is exactly what I will be doing, I am going to ask some other collectors who have handled or documented tropical straps for their opinions and experience. They may or may not be prepared to make a judgement based on computer images alone. Sometimes they declare that the final decision can only be made by holding the tropical strap in hand and putting it side by side with known originals.

I am not saying that the "Tropen Nebel strap" which looks copper brown piping on my monitor or the Golden yellow piped straps are good or bad. All I am saying is that I am going to take my time, compare with othe tropical boards I already have and consult with others in regard to what they have in their collections or have seen/ experienced.

Until I have done this, I am not going to declare the Nebel/ Recon straps good or bad. I hope others would also take the time to do this before making a judgement,

Chris

p.s. there is no such thing as a perfect copy. If a copy is perfect, how do you know it is a copy ? Copies always have red flags some which that give them away as bad. Also keep in mind that there are some originals, quality of original manufacture and certain makers that are instantly recognised by collectors and preferred over others.

[longislandercjv]

As many of you know, I collect shoulder straps / boards of all branches of the Heer.
(including DAK/Tropical). There are MANY variations of shoulder strap construction,
some of which are so "non-standard" that they're often labeled "reproduction".
There are also many field modified "expedient" straps that are crude, ugly, and
also considered "repros".
Those of us that recall the "Vet Lots" we obtained in the 60's - 70's, many "oddball" pieces were included. (Modified, field made, etc.)
Today, those same vet acquired pieces who be viewed with a jaundiced eye and
labeled as "reproduction" or "not for my collection".
Many collectors here on WAF are quick to tender "opinions" which are, frankly,
of no value.
Collectors should cultivate a collecting friendship with a fellow collector who is known for his knowledge of that particular area of collecting.
This, and attending as many militaria shows (like the SOS) as possible , buying worthwhile reference books, and visiting the many websites are all recommended.
Knowledge is power! Learn your topic!
Regarding these tropical straps offered here by Sprachfuehrer, I am NOT CONVINCED that they are all reproductions. I have almost a complete set of all the Waffenfarben used on DAK / Tropical straps (several vet aquired decades ago)
and would have to check them against these offered by Sprachfuehrer.
Hence "the jury is out" on these straps here on Long Island!

[Michael Everett]

Expert????

One of the “experts” on this thread claimed that this set, which I posted in another thread was a reproduction. I received a number of PMs questioning the knowledge of this expert. So, here are my so called “fakes” from a WAF expert for consideration:

Mike

[Michael Everett]

Top

Arty