My new M36 jacket - never cleaned original find

[NickG]

Back to this untouched "moth protected closet survivor" tunic:
as the thread revealed the unit was destroyed in Stalingrad which makes you wonder about the owner...His "ausgehe" (best-dress) uniform stayed in the closet!
The tunic is a private purchase officer's grade uniform, taiior made, but lacks tags, also none in the inside pocket...so no name or date unfortunately.

What is interesting (as expected) no dagger slit, so the wearer was without "portopee" (no dagger/sword rights) which makes sense for a lowly corporal!
Further proof that this quality tunic belonged to a Obergefreiter! (not an incorrectly restored officers uniform! Definitely not!)
The rank "winkel (chevron) also shows no discoloration under the insignia! A 100% original well-seated application!

[NickG]

It did suffer some moth damage but still nice! There is one well done period repair!

[NickG]

Now the straps! The Pz Gren 108 Regimental embroidered cyphers no doubt were light green at one time, but now faded to almost white. The preserved farbe of the Pz.Gren light green piping on the shoulderboards fared a lot better!

You can tell by the uniform discoloration that these tailor made straps are original applications as the unfaded (protected) areas under the shoulderstraps match up perfectly! (officer boards of course are a lot narrower.
This uniform was born like this!

[NickG]

Litzen 100% original application with Pz.Gren farbe!

[NickG]

Some insignia in place where the award loops are! I am stoked with this find!
The right sleeve needs a repair so I will send it to Virginia @ OTM.

[NickG]

Now I need to get this for it...but the seller wants a lot of money 850E
Same waffen farbe and same smooth wool even! (but perhaps a dye job...?)

[Daniel.S]

Nick.

Nice tunic, it looks all original.

I would pass on that cap if i were you..

[Zip3120]

awesome tunic Nick.

I love historic jacket.
Marco

[NickG]

Thanks guys.
If he was an officer candidate (wearing Anwarter-Schlaufen) he would have received a temporary NCO rank while going through officer training and upon his commission receiving "Leutnant" rank.
Here some insignia I found on the web! Rank progression in this Pz.Gren Regiment "108"

[Johnny R]

[Lenny W]

my god

[NickG]

MG?
In a PM to me Johnny you stated that you thought it was either ;

- made this way for an enlisted ranker as his on-leave uniform (with expensive taste obviously)
- Recycled as an "ausgehe" (Best dress) tunic from a KIA, reused from an officer, perhaps a relative?...(but no prior insignia ghosts! idea = kaput)
- made this way because he was an officer candidate (skipping the NCO level) and allowed to wear it !
So genuine...

The tunic was frowned upon initially as an incorrectly restored officer tunic...fully understandable, such a combination is just not seen anywhere!

Sorry, but I am a 100% non believer in this . J

Agree, such an odd combination (rank/base tunic/eagle) that it looks like a post war creation....but who knows weird uniform combinations did exist....
just would need more proof for me. But if you are happy then that is all that matters.

Actually,
even war time it would have been frowned upon to have such a low ranker wear an officer quality tunic with a large collar, French cuffs and a bullion eagle!
(Perhaps as the driver of the Regimental commander he could get away with this?)


I knew right away it had a chance and wasn't a fabrication! (hands-on inspection validated my suspicion), it was "born this way" without a doubt!
So I'm thinking the third scenario and the officer candidate loops are now missing.
That makes it a very exciting (dare I used the word spectacular) combination: Enlisted rank - Officer specs! (but no dagger provisions, lacking a slit, no "portopee" yet!)
Makes perfect sense to me!

The tunic even has belt support hooks in the back to support the weight of the enlisted dress bayonet...officers don't always have that! Another positive clue!



When was something remotely similar shown on WAF? and Pz-Gren to boot of a famous fighting regiment that was destroyed in Stalingrad (later rebuilt)
Sorry about my excitement and wanting to share my thoughts! (too boring? so show me another one like this! or a period picture of such a combination? )
Here some war time officer Candicates in combat grade uniforms with their "Anwarter" tresse in place!

[Johnny R]

I never told you it was real, I gave you some possible (unlikely) scenarios to explain what is there that you edited and paraphrased to say I said it was "genuine". "Possible" does not mean something is real. The base tunic is original and the insignia but when it was all put together is very hard to determine. It looks like other tabs were on there and a different eagle- black thread left for these over the eagle and on the under collar . Too bad the pants are not with it, you could see if the seat is worn out on both cheeks and test your idea he was a driver for a division general etc.

Time for the Nick G. Flow chart again-


I can break it down into a process as thus:

1. You post basic pictures of an odd clothing item and ask if it is what you think it is.

2. People tell you it is not what you think it is, and often tell you what it really most likely is.

3. You develop some odd far reaching illogical theory and go to great lengths to prove you are correct with period photos, line marking and sketches all in an attempt to again try to get other people to agree with you that it is what you want it to be.

4. No one normally agrees.

5. You "restore" it as whatever you wanted it to be in the beginning. Invariably some extremely rare esoteric TR item that you already do not have an example of.

6. Start with a new odd clothing item and repeat process.

[jacquesf]

Nick have you ever thought it might have been an officer stripped of his ranked due to a courtmartial, down to enlisted rank? J

[NickG]

I never told you it was real, I gave you some possible (unlikely) scenarios to explain what is there that you edited and paraphrased to say I said it was "genuine". "Possible" does not mean something is real. The base tunic is original and the insignia but when it was all put together is very hard to determine.
It looks like other tabs were on there and a different eagle- black thread left for these over the eagle and on the under collar .

Easy to determine once in hand! It's an untouched original unmolested closet survivor with 1940 moth killer still in the pocket as shown.
All insignia well seated and the fading that matches perfectly. The black thread remnants aren't from prior applications...now brushed off...
Not in hand, so you get a pass for misjudging it...No problem! but the lack of fading under the wide enlisted shoulderstraps are sufficient proof that
it is and always has been a (fancy) Corporals uniform! Basta!

PS: some black thread for the facing of the collar that was unraveling...Nothing alarming! Trust me! or maybe for a Knights cross attachment