Panzer Pioneer Black Wrapper II

[Tim O'Keefe]

John,

Your absolutely correct about seeking out the "experts"and I certainly value the comments of folks like Willi, Glenn, Mike Davis, Bryon Singer, Bob Hritz etc. I would certainly be hesitant of spending more money then I'm willing to gamble, on any items these folks give the thumbs down to.

Whether we can ever reach a consensus is not really the issue for me. Everyone has a say on this forum, we certainly don't have to agree, however theres no cause to belittle follks who disagree. I'm sorry about my little Hissy Fit, I have the highest respect for Willi.

I participate on the WAF because its fun. This thread is fun even though we'll never be able to prove to everyones absolute satisfaction that the wrap is good or bad. The best we can accomplish is to get all the facts out there (pro or con) for folks to form there own opinion.

Jim

Agree again. The more all collectors know the less the fakers can exploit them. While i understand the perception that some share. Not to reveal anything too helpful to the fakers in public, this also helps the fakers be able to continue to sell crap to the less experienced serious collectors by creatng doubt.
If more knowledge is shared by all, the fakers job becomes harder not easier imo. I think the poll (while interesting) demonstrates this well.

If everyone could pass "wraps 101" then the fakers would really have to go to work to fool potential collectors. The Old Guard have always been very helpful when i have contacted any of them privately for advice or help to verify an item.
Thats what makes this Forum so valuable

[jacquesf]

If everyone could pass "wraps 101" then the fakers would really have to go to work to fool potential collectors. The Old Guard have always been very helpful when i have contacted any of them privately for advice or help to verify an item.
Thats what makes this Forum so valuable[/QUOTE]

My experience as well. Jacques

[naxos]

Who among us is arrogant and haughty enough to assert that they could never be burned by a fake, that they have stopped learning? How egotistical does someone have to become to think that they can pass absolute and final judgement on any item based on a few web pictures alone, and that this judgement should be taken as gospel despite steadfast refusal to provide any basis for this supposedly iron-clad verdict? For the most part, few of us know with any certainty what is in any given collector's collection, where their expertise lies, what other collections they have access to, or what experience they bring to the table generally. And yet there are nevertheless people who pompously claim to have all the answers- a small minority of people, it is true, but a vocal minority.

I'm not talking about people like Mike Davis or Glenn McInnes who are generous with images of their vast collections and who very obviously have a mastery of technical knowledge of the uniform field, but rather of those few posters who rarely or never post photos and are more likely to act like a bully, than to post something that would be truly helpful. I find this thread to be vastly revealing- not on the authentication of uniform items, but on the personalities one is likely to encounter in this often frustrating hobby.

Thank you Chris!
Well said

[B. N. Singer]

...I find this thread to be vastly revealing- not on the authentication of uniform items, but on the personalities one is likely to encounter in this often frustrating hobby.

Me too.

B. N. Singer

[Willi Z.]

Me too.

B. N. Singer

Me as well. Disappointed in some cases, but not surprised in others. Thank goodness the sandbox is very large.

[Richard P]

On the authentication of uniforms, specifically wraps, we may as well have Harry Potter check them for us. Mr. Singer is capable of telling what's original with the poorest of photos and usually only one is needed. I didn't get it until OSS finally spelled it out. I GET IT NOW, and woe to you collectors that think you may own a rare wrap.

NO PROOF, NO DISCUSSION, MIGHT AS WELL BE A WAVE OF A WAND.

I know several of the people on this thread are responsible for getting all of my contributions to the Pritchett wrap book axed. I did catch that first hint Mr. Singer.

Rule number one, and the only rule.

1. Rare unit = FAKE. All three CG HG wraps threads verify this as does this thread.

LINKS:


1. CG HG wrap thread 1: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...llectors+guild

2. CG HG thread 2: Continuing a Discussion : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ing+discussion

3. CG HG wrap thread 3: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...llectors+guild

BONUS READING:

DO YOU WANT THIS GUY JUDGING YOUR WRAPS WHEN HE FAILS SO MISERABLY ON HIS OWN?

SS Panzer Wrap: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=226970

Richard

[Richard P]

Sorry . . . but since this thread has evolved away from it's original intent, to me, it now seems OK to ask this question: What do all of you think is the TRUE answer to Willi Z's question?

I have an answer, but dare not post it. I will never be heard from again.

Richard

[B. N. Singer]

On the authentication of uniforms, specifically wraps, we may as well have Harry Potter check them for us. Mr. Singer is capable of telling what's original with the poorest of photos and usually only one is needed. I didn't get it until OSS finally spelled it out. I GET IT NOW, and woe to you collectors that think you may own a rare wrap.

NO PROOF, NO DISCUSSION, MIGHT AS WELL BE A WAVE OF A WAND.

I know several of the people on this thread are responsible for getting all of my contributions to the Pritchett wrap book axed. I did catch that first hint Mr. Singer.

Rule number one, and the only rule.

1. Rare unit = FAKE. All three CG HG wraps threads verify this as does this thread.

LINKS:


1. CG HG wrap thread 1: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...llectors+guild

2. CG HG thread 2: Continuing a Discussion : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ing+discussion

3. CG HG wrap thread 3: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...llectors+guild

BONUS READING:

DO YOU WANT THIS GUY JUDGING YOUR WRAPS WHEN HE FAILS SO MISERABLY ON HIS OWN?

SS Panzer Wrap: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=226970

Richard

No “WAVE OF A WAND” will make things that are Not Original otherwise; and for some people telling the difference, in many cases, is no magic act.

As for the anticipated book on wraparounds that is to be released my only comment is that I HOPE the author has the good sense to include ONLY items that are Original, so as to make the work the best that it can be for collector’s sake and not mitigate his laborious efforts.

B. N. Singer
PS. Mr. Peacher, regardless to what you might believe, I have NEVER seen ANY pictures of your wraparounds, other than the few that you have posted on the WAF.

[Langemark]

BONUS READING:

DO YOU WANT THIS GUY JUDGING YOUR WRAPS WHEN HE FAILS SO MISERABLY ON HIS OWN?

SS Panzer Wrap: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=226970

Richard

May I express my "doubts" again ... as I did in post 113 ?

Mark

[Willi Z.]

I have an answer, but dare not post it. I will never be heard from again.

Richard

You think everyone is after you, and only you must comment with restraint.

[djpool]

Too bad the poll doesn't allow persons do go back in and change their vote. Would be intersting to see if any minds have changed or we're still divided 1/3 by 1/3 by 1/3 +or -. Jim

[Willi Z.]

Too bad the poll doesn't allow persons do go back in and change their vote. Would be intersting to see if any minds have changed or we're still divided 1/3 by 1/3 by 1/3 +or -. Jim

Yes, it would be interesting Jim. This is a tough for many. I wouldn't buy such an item without having it vetted by some on this thread. As well as others who are watching this thread (we talked about it at a show last weekend in Pa) who have no doubt it is a fake but will never post on the forum, for obvious reasons.

This thread reminds me of the class warfare which is being promoted by some throughout the US. "Burn the rich and we will all be better off". As was mentioned in a PM to me; "if there are no experts, then everyone is an expert".

It is a shame this thread has brought out the worst in many, myself included. We should all be on the same team.

[John Pic]

Regardless of what Mr. Singer or Mr. Peacher's opinions are were I to vote again I would vote again "Not sure" but leaning enough to that is it exactly what many suspect...a fantasy piece made up to draw in big money. Common sense....after watching rare item after rare item surface on the dealer websites we discuss for years..with very few common items being sold until after a point in time the sellers realized the community noticed.

Im disheartened that it has turned into a contest of wills and that won't make an item more original.

[djpool]

Hi Willi,

I guess the good thing is if we didn't care it wouldn't bring out any emotions in us. But all things considered it hasn't been a bad discussion.Yes it sometimes got heated and some things were said that folks, including myself may want to take back. The problem with defining class warfare and experts takes on different meanings for different folks, depending on where you are in life.

Now we have our Rock Stars (classes) in this hobby and as with most celebrities are held to a different standards and are open season for lots of folks. You're one of those that fall in that category as are Mr Singer and yes Richard P. But I think you all hold it together pretty good. The banter I've seen in this discussion is no different from other discussions that involve the same personalities. Folks like Wade K. and Scott P. who write books and try to contribute something lasting for the community are ridiculed by some, to the point they have left the WAF. Book writers are given zero tolerance to make mistakes, while WAF stars are held to a 95% standard. Its not fair to them or us, everyone makes mistakes.

Jim

Yes, it would be interesting Jim. This is a tough for many. I wouldn't buy such an item without having it vetted by some on this thread. As well as others who are watching this thread (we talked about it at a show last weekend in Pa) who have no doubt it is a fake but will never post on the forum, for obvious reasons.

This thread reminds me of the class warfare which is being promoted by some throughout the US. "Burn the rich and we will all be better off". As was mentioned in a PM to me; "if there are no experts, then everyone is an expert".

It is a shame this thread has brought out the worst in many, myself included. We should all be on the same team.

[WEISNER]

Yes, it would be interesting Jim. This is a tough for many. I wouldn't buy such an item without having it vetted by some on this thread. As well as others who are watching this thread (we talked about it at a show last weekend in Pa) who have no doubt it is a fake but will never post on the forum, for obvious reasons.

This thread reminds me of the class warfare which is being promoted by some throughout the US. "Burn the rich and we will all be better off". As was mentioned in a PM to me; "if there are no experts, then everyone is an expert".

It is a shame this thread has brought out the worst in many, myself included. We should all be on the same team.

Well stated Willi! in the big picture Us vs. Them should not mean Collector vs. Collector but the collector community vs. the Fakers!
to quote you "We should all be on the same team."

Kev