Panzer Pioneer Black Wrapper II

[Leroy]

One more time, just to be sure (too many threads here to take the chance):

Both of these wraps, both originally owned by PANZERPIONIERE (the Der Spiess being originally posted in 2003 and the other, with no collar piping, being posted @2006) are being deemed fake?:

[naxos]

Is Ken Berg still on this forum? Wasn't he a partner in RotR (maybe still is)? Would be interesting to hear his take on things.

Regards,

Drew

Yes, he is still here - and he was reading this thread as I was typing. I too would be interested in his take on this matter.

[judas]

Yes, he is still here - and he was reading this thread as I was typing. I too would be interested in his take on this matter.

: just amazing for you to spot and cope this my god even i am going mad how do these guys feel is it real ? **** even i could paint another http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct...G4KysE3NmvLftA

[Johnny R]

I LOVE the ROTR England connection. This is my favorite Kent Berg thread on the forum.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=piped+nebel

Why is this surprising. --+

[John Pic]

Thanks Johnny I remember that thread I had forgotten the U.S. side of ROTR Mr. Berg. I remember some other contraversies around a restored Generalas tunic as well.

[John Pic]

Here is a tunic that was offered to me by ROTR Paul.....Note that the rank tab was for an Obersturmfuhrer and the shoulder boards are from a Hauptsturmfuhrer...when I reminded him of this he promptly removed a pips and switched them out and sent me the pictures. Would anyone do this to an original untouched SS tunic???

[John Pic]

The board originally...

[John Pic]

and after I pointed out the discrepancy.....I later noticed the eagle was also a fake Sieder.

[judas]

and after I pointed out the discrepancy.....

john the pip is not the same ? as the above and i can see lose treads in one photo and not other a long with a few other things

[John Pic]

Yes but this is the picture he sent after I pointed out the mistake and it may be the other side...if you look at the tunic material a doeskin or boiled wool they are the same tunic. Here in this one you can see the button is clearly the same button. The boards may have been distressed when the pips were removed and changed.

[PANZERPIONIERE]

I own the EM wrapper, I took those pictures yesterday.
Straight out of the vets foot locker.

Steve

One more time, just to be sure (too many threads here to take the chance):

Both of these wraps, both originally owned by PANZERPIONIERE (the Der Spiess being originally posted in 2003 and the other, with no collar piping, being posted @2006) are being deemed fake?:

[Richard P]

I own the EM wrapper, I took those pictures yesterday.
Straight out of the vets foot locker.

Steve

Steve,

Funny (not) how it was getting lumped in with two other tunics.

I am not convinced that either of the C. Wohlgemuth tunics are bad, not one shred of evidence has been posted. I believe in what I can see, not what some other collector says because his Ma or Pa taught him the difference between real and fake.

Nothing but conjecture about black linings, markings, and who had it. Notorious fakers actually do get some real items in from time to time. They sell them the same as their fakes, you just have to be able to sort them out.

When is someone going to point out all the fakers tell tale mistakes on either of C.W. wraps? Does the GD wrap have fake boards? Fake anything that we can see? The breast eagles are trimmed and sewn identically, just like a real uniform tailor would do. How about someone giving a detailed explanation how the flecked pz pioneer piping was added to an existing collar, and how they spotted it? It is obvious when it has been done, if you have ever seen it.

Richard

[Leroy]

I am very glad for PANZERPIONIERE that the 2nd wrap (the one shown immediately below) was NOT the "Relics of the Reich piece" being talked about, but rather a direct vet acquisition. I was worried, because of the number of cross-links posted here, that there was some confusion which needed to be cleared up.

[Leroy]

So there are only two wraps which are being said to be bad, both shown below:

[John Pic]

Wow more than one wrap by the same maker sold by the same dealer and the RED FLAGS still do not go up???? WTF man....???What does it take...sometimes I think pride intercede's too often and the fact that thousands are spent makes it difficult to say "wow maybe I need to look closer". Or is it just a battle of personalities and egos? The interest of the collector should come before any of that.

Im happy that PANZERPIONEER wound up with a good one there...but my anger and the anger of others over the manipulation of this hobby by a handful of European dealers should start showing its teeth...These guys make up these tunics and then put them on their site listed with P.O.R. Price on request and people buy them and the Market gos haywire thus we have $34,000 NCO tunics now...you guys are their mark.