Panzer Pioneer Black Wrapper II

[OSS]

My (obviously poor)attempt at sarcasm.

No, excellent use of sarcasm; I was a little slow on the uptake.

[djpool]

While the number stamps have been changed up, I believe the letter stamps are the same. Whats unmistakeable is the similarity on how the items were actually stamped.

I suspect these two examples were made by the same hand.

[derka]

Another common wrap with black lining for sale.

Jim,
This is the stamp n°2 shown previously in #83, the n°1 same source.

[phild]

Phil,

A note on collar piping. Keep in mind that the Panzer Police piped their wraps right up until the end of the war. It is almost impossible to find one that does not have the collar piped in photos. I have dozens and dozens of panzer photos with piped collars and many are later war wraps and HG wraps. Perhaps they are all done after the fact, and not from the factory.

Richard

Yes I agree. I think that the Police regulations on these wraps and every other police uniform item were pretty independent from what the Army was doing. The police material in my limited experience with it seems to be be a better quality and for much later in the war that what I see with Army.I also think that while most agree that collar piping being factory applied on Army wraps ended for the contract wraps around 1939, it continued to be worn until the end of the war and was also often added by officers and NCO on both contract wraps that they owned (purchased) and had made long after 1939...

One thing that tends to get overlooked is that it can be very difficult to spot additions and alterations made by expert tailors to uniforms during the period (and I guess that could apply to post war modifications as well). meaning that the easy and simple way to effect an addition or modification was not always followed. I have seen collars opened up along the edge seam to add piping in what I believe were wartime upgrades.....but you can also find piping added by sewing the "edge selvage" along the underside edge of the collar.....both can look very neat when done correctly....but obvously the first technique is much more labor intensive.

[B. N. Singer]

While the number stamps have been changed up, I believe the letter stamps are the same. Whats unmistakeable is the similarity on how the items were actually stamped.

Interesting Jim.

A family concern no doubt, cousins perhaps? Operating in different cities (Posen & Essen). Catering to special wraparound orders from uncommon, small units.

Nothing difficult to accept about that; or so the proponents will have us believe.

And the dealer is, may I ask?

B. N. Singer
PS, forgive my sarcasm Mr. Pic.

[LuckyStrike23]

Interesting Jim.


And the dealer is, may I ask?

B. N. Singer

https://www.history-shop.de/katalog/...nes_77147.html

Kay Winkler - who had caused some trouble lately

[OSS]

Interesting Jim.

A family concern no doubt, cousins perhaps? Operating in different cities (Posen & Essen). Catering to special wraparound orders from uncommon, small units.

Nothing difficult to accept about that; or so the proponents will have us believe.

And the dealer is, may I ask?

B. N. Singer
PS, forgive my sarcasm Mr. Pic.

I would not be surprised if these two wrappers were not made in the same room on the same machine by the same "artist".

[OSS]

While the number stamps have been changed up, I believe the letter stamps are the same. Whats unmistakeable is the similarity on how the items were actually stamped.

Nice bit of CSI Mr. Pool.

[B. N. Singer]

I would not be surprised if these two wrappers were not made in the same room on the same machine by the same "artist".

But PLEASE do NOT say on a "Singer" sewing machine!!!

Best to you Sir.

B. N.

[OSS]

Many German uniforms were made on Singer brand sewing machines, a result of what is now called "the global economy".

[Bob Hritz]

I think Bryon was thinking of not using the brand name as a possessive instead of as a proper noun as intended.

Bob Hritz ( an unfortunate grammar geek)

[B. N. Singer]

Many German uniforms were made on Singer brand sewing machines, a result of what is now called "the global economy".

Yes, of course; but I was referring in a "deflected" way to a post made by the owner of this Pz pio example, directed at yours truly, which has long since been deleted.

Oh yes Bob, that too. Thank you Sir.

B. N.

[phild]

Stamps often are the first clue to give a fake away. I have to hope and right now believe that there are always other characteristics to to reveal them as well, but I guess if a fake is perfect then it is sort of moot as to what to look for!

I mention stampings because too much information can get the faker in trouble quickly with a sharp collector....such as a date that does not fit with the item's properties or a depot or maker that does not fit with each other ....or any number things (sizes way incorrect) all have been seen before....so I wonder if they are leaving these a vague as they think that they can get away with?

I say the above because the stamps are really the easiest thing to get right with a little work and knowledge.

[John Hodgin]

Excellent illustration Jim, the thread has become interesting and educational again!

[djpool]

Yes its the GD Wohlgemuth and Pz PI Wohlgemuth stamp. Jim

Jim,
This is the stamp n°2 shown previously in #83, the n°1 same source.