Announcement

**phild** · 11-24-2008, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Josh Beckett View Post

The older ban had banned svt-40s and the next one will too. It will also ban M1-carbines, G43s, johnsons, AVS semi autos, and many others.

I dont think another ban will come within the next four years(I am still on my guard though), as the dems have bigger fish to fry right now. If they do screw around with gun laws, they can kiss the house senate and whitehouse good bye.

I see it pretty much the same way. The issue is a real hot potato and supporting more gun control has cost a number of politicians elections. The party to be in power in Jan 09 has enough risky issues on thier plate for the time being without bringing on the fire and brimstone issue of gun control.

I would also say that the so-called ban on so-called asssault weapons (don't you love the double speak of the Left?) really did little to nothing in banning ownership...just some manufacture and hence new sales.

If you want to see some interesting reaction I think that confiscation would be about as dangerous as anything that have witnessed in my half a century+ of life.

**dag001** · 11-24-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Bob Hritz

Thank George Bush; HE elected Barak Obama.

However, with all the problems facing President-elect Obama, I highly doubt he will have the time or energy to worry about guns in the next two years. Afther that, he will spend 2 years campaigning fo reelection and no gun laws pass during campaign season.

Pray that President-elect Obama will find the strength and courage to make wise choices and work for all the people. Pray that common sense dictates and that can devote himself to the problems at hand, which are far worse than firearms ownership.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Originally posted by landsknechte View Post

Very true. McCain was on the ticket, but this election was really Obama vs. Bush.

All the handwringing in the world isn't going to make a damn bit of difference. Make your voice known to the politicians that represent you, and perhaps enough of them will abide by the will of the people to keep things from going down the path that you don't want them to go down. Politicians like to make a lot of noise when they're trying to get elected, and once they have been, the cold hard realities of politics and future reelections tend to keep them steering a more moderate path. Even out here in California, the state that so many people in the fly-over states love to mock as a socialist paradise, there haven't been any real efforts on the politicians to go on a gun grabbing romp.

Frankly, given the way that the Republicans managed the country in the wake of 9/11, I'm not convinced that they're the champions of civil liberties either...

I have to agree with Bob and landsknechte. Bush did more to elect Obama than the Democratic party. I've been a passionate gun collector since the 1950's, and for the first time feel there are issues to take into consideration that are more important.
Also, jhodgson made the comment about an elderly couple who told him "they did not give a crap about climate change because they will be dead by the time it gets bad". Jeezus!! I sincerely hope people like this are in the minority. I for one, care deeply about what kind of world we are leaving for our children and grandchildren.
BTW, wasn't McCain one of the most vocal supporters for closing the "gun show loop"?
My 2¢ only and probably worth ½ that!

**Josh Beckett** · 11-25-2008, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by phild View Post

I see it pretty much the same way. The issue is a real hot potato and supporting more gun control has cost a number of politicians elections. The party to be in power in Jan 09 has enough risky issues on thier plate for the time being without bringing on the fire and brimstone issue of gun control.

I would also say that the so-called ban on so-called asssault weapons (don't you love the double speak of the Left?) really did little to nothing in banning ownership...just some manufacture and hence new sales.

If you want to see some interesting reaction I think that confiscation would be about as dangerous as anything that have witnessed in my half a century+ of life.

The old ban had only banned new manufacturing of assault weapons. It did not effect the ones already owned. It didnt affect importation of assault weapons because we can thank our good buddy George HW Bush(a good reason to be on guard no matter who is in charge), who had banned the importation of assault weapons through an executive order.

I personally dont think that there would be a huge revolt/civil war if gun confiscation came around, look at Australia, some guys turned in their guns, others didnt, others hid them. When the s**t hits the fan, it is in our nature to turn tail and run. I do think that alot of people would use violence to protect their guns, but it wouldnt be on the scale many think it would be.

**PlaceOfBayonets** · 11-26-2008, 01:48 AM

Some of you guys are going way political on this thread. I don't want to see it shut down. If you stick to rights rather then politics I would hope all will be well here.

I used to ask, since when are "rights" and or the second amendment considered politics?

What do I think? I think the anti gun people have learned from their mistakes and will not repete them. In the end they will seek restrictions that will make it a pain in the @ss for even the re enactor all the way down to people with dummy guns for use in sci fi costumes. But maybe not before OB is a lame duck.

Wilhelm

**Gary Cain** · 11-26-2008, 03:23 AM

This is not correct. The gun dealer is required to keep the 4473 for the life of the shop(I was a dealer for many years). They are never to be disposed of. When the FFL holder relinquishes his license the 4473's are to be sent to the ATF office in Atlanta for storage(and of course to computerise them as well). There are a lot of other "duties" you are required to perform if you are a FFL Licensee such as confiscating contraband firearms if they come into your shop etc.

Gary

Originally posted by theinglebaby23 View Post

I sold guns (for national retailers) in college for a couple years. I get this all the time, but here's the real low-down on the 4473:

The FFL holder (shop that sells the firearm) must retain the document for somewhere between 2-5 years (I forgot which, but it does end at after a certain period). That's the only requirement, nothing is specified further. However, gun shops don't play around with these forms, so they'll usually keep them forever (mine did).

Now, say the new administration wanted to register all firearms, they COULD use the 4473 (which if you think about it would be an insane task in and of itself). But, keep in mind that there is no law forcing ANY PRIVATE firearms owner in this country to do background checks on who he sells
(or gifts) that same firearm (e.g. the "gun show" loophole, as Obama calls it).

For example: I was one of those dudes at the gun shows walking around with a rifle on my back (which I at one time had filled out a 4473 for) with a price tag on it. Some dude walked up and bought it. And with nothing but a handshake and an exchange of cash, the gun is gone (and completely legally).

Moral of the story: although the 4473 was filled out (and may be on file somewhere), and even if ATF had the time/resources to go through it all, it still wouldn't give them an accurate picture of who owns what firearm. So, if a national firearm registration were to happen, the only accurate way of registration would be if gun owners were to willingly state that they owned such and such firearm. That's it.

Firearm registration is unconstitutional... for now anyway.

Rich

**CurtD** · 11-27-2008, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by theinglebaby23 View Post

How did the last ban effect bolt-actions with bayonet lugs (mosins, K98s, arisakas, etc.) if at all?

The last "ban" was purely a public relations act that did absolutely nothing other than run up prices on high capacity magazines and pre-ban rifles.

The only thing the act did was "ban" the manufacture and importation of scary looking weapons. You could still buy them, sell them, and own them. To get around the "ban" on manufacturing, manufacturers like Colt quickly removed the bayonet lug on the AR-15 and voila! It was a Colt Match Target. Big freakin deal. And you could still buy 40 round magazines (but at a higher price). Before the ban, high capacity magazine manufacturers were running their factories 24 hours/day and cranked out a 10 year supply that was never exhausted.

The fact that a lot of people actually thought this bill accomplished something shows just how stupid people can be.

**CurtD** · 11-27-2008, 12:38 AM

Frankly, I've had about enough. I'm tired of continuously having my 2nd amendment rights threatened. I'm tired of a government who's spending is totally out of control and I'm told it's my fault because I don't pay enough taxes. I'm fed up with being told that is unfair for me to have a retirement fund (what's left of it). I'm sick to death of being blamed for global warming (which is total BS) and forced to use toilets that clog all the time and waste massive quantities of water because they were designed by government bureaucrats. I'm tired of watching complete, incompetent idiots who either have only a law background or a professional politician background try to tell the banks, mortgage companies, auto companies, even the damned football teams, etc. how they should be running their businesses. The last car developed by a government that I can recall was the freakin Yugo. If that's what the American people want, they can have it.

It's time to start forming an exit strategy. What are the alternatives? Switzerland is high on the list. Any others?

**Terry K.** · 11-27-2008, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Bob Hritz View Post

Thank George Bush; HE elected Barak Obama.

However, with all the problems facing President-elect Obama, I highly doubt he will have the time or energy to worry about guns in the next two years. Afther that, he will spend 2 years campaigning fo reelection and no gun laws pass during campaign season.

Pray that President-elect Obama will find the strength and courage to make wise choices and work for all the people. Pray that common sense dictates and that can devote himself to the problems at hand, which are far worse than firearms ownership.

Oh, by the way, your firearms are registered when you fill in the form 4473 and the instant phone check makes a second registration of the firearm. Buying something you think may be banned will only result in giving it away if it should become unlawful to own. Remember, there are two separate registrations that you have completed when you buy a firearm.

Bob Hritz

Hi All,
I must strongly dis-agree. GWB had very many good ideas which the Libs and many RINO's(McCain included) fought against for all of his 8 years. The calling in of your 4473 is not a second list as it only ask for permission to sell, not the ID of the weapon, and by law the list MUST be dumped and not kept on any files, electronic or otherwise within a very limited time frame.
BHO was forced on the stupid American public by the news media, he was their choice and I hope that all his marxist programs are thwarted as the left did to GWB.
Terry

**CurtD** · 11-27-2008, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Terry K. View Post

and I hope that all his marxist programs are thwarted as the left did to GWB.
Terry

By whom? I keep hearing that America would never allow their retirement funds to be seized by the govt. What are they going to do? Grab their guns and march on D.C.?

They are going to hand them over with glee.

Today I give thanks only for what was. With optimism for my escape plan.

**CurtD** · 11-27-2008, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Terry K. View Post

Hi All,
The calling in of your 4473 is not a second list as it only ask for permission to sell, not the ID of the weapon, and by law the list MUST be dumped and not kept on any files, electronic or otherwise within a very limited time frame.

Form 4473, page 2, section D, the seller must list the gun's manufacturer, model, serial #, type (pistol, etc.) & caliber. These 4473's are kept FOREVER.

When a FFL goes out of business, they are required to turn over all records to the BATF -- where they are entered into a permanent computer DB (thanks to Janet Reno). A defacto gun registration for firearms sold by an FFL that has gone out of business.

If/when the Chinese decide to waltz across the borders and take over the Paper Tiger, they will have easy access to find all firearm's owners. Of coure, the Nazi's didn't need this (though I'm sure they would have liked to have had it). They just declared the death penalty for anyone in occupied lands found in posession of firearms.

"Not that old the Nazis banned guns myth again!!" Yep, there it is again. I guess they technically didn't "ban" guns, you could still keep them. They would just kill you if they found them on you.

**CurtD** · 11-27-2008, 12:37 PM

Ok, I need some tryptophan, I know. I will shutup now.

**Terry K.** · 11-27-2008, 02:16 PM

Hi CurtD,
If you read what Bob was talking about, it was the call in part he said was the second registration, this is what I was talking about.
Yes, when I stop being an FFL, I have to send my records to the ATFE and keep copies for 20 years.
I may be incorrect, but I think the NRA got that(Janet Reno's) provision thrown out.
It really doesn't matter because Marxist never follow any laws any way.
Happy F***ing Thanks Giving!

**Alex R.** · 11-27-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Josh Beckett View Post

The old ban had only banned new manufacturing of assault weapons. It did not effect the ones already owned. It didnt affect importation of assault weapons because we can thank our good buddy George HW Bush(a good reason to be on guard no matter who is in charge), who had banned the importation of assault weapons through an executive order.

I personally dont think that there would be a huge revolt/civil war if gun confiscation came around, look at Australia, some guys turned in their guns, others didnt, others hid them. When the s**t hits the fan, it is in our nature to turn tail and run. I do think that alot of people would use violence to protect their guns, but it wouldnt be on the scale many think it would be.

Josh,

It may be in your nature to turn tail and run, but for me and the friends I hang out with( Americans )will never turn tail and run !!!!!! If they come for are guns,We will surely give them the ammo first !!!! You better pull your head out of the sand Josh, and take note on whats really going on in this country in present time. SP's, Progresives, and Left Wing Loons should maybe think about arming them selves. Oh yea these are the Americans you must be thinking about when you say Turn Tail and Run.

AARG

Alex R. An American Rifleman, Not Australian.

**CurtD** · 11-27-2008, 06:56 PM

I think it is time for Atlas to Shrug

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/045...SIN=0452011876

**Johnnie** · 11-29-2008, 02:37 AM

The old "Assault Weapons Ban", as someone has already stated, was a joke. I bought two AK's during that time frame, with the politically correct thumb hole stock. I then bought the American made stock kits to retrofit them back to normal. So they don't have bayonet lugs. So what.
That law was vague as hell and sunsetted in order to placate the gun control crowd, and still be able to be passed. And it still cost a lot of Congressmen their jobs.
All polititians make a lot of promisses to their grass roots supporters during elections that they conviently forget.
I suspect this administration remembers what even a paper tiger ban cost them in the past. And if they don't, Congressional seats are up for election in a couple years.
The key is to stay vigilant, and not let them forget.

Johnnie

Announcement

USA: Effects of reinstatement of the "assault weapons ban" on our collecting?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread