Rare SS Pack Prototype Dagger

[charlie7]

I know these early prototypes could have a lot of variations. But the question I ask myself is why a Rohm SS blade with an SA grip with an imperial (early) eagle?The early eagle I might buy the other 2 together are hard to understand. Charlie

[101combatvet]

Looks like the eagle is secured by a nail.

[JR.]

I have to reiterate, what a wonderful historic edged weapon which has come to light, in amazing state of preservation.

[Bulldog]

I have to reiterate, what a wonderful historic edged weapon which has come to light, in amazing state of preservation.

No offence but a bit more than that is needed JR. What are your thoughts on the blade, the fittings, and in particular the grip eagle, have you seen this one before?

Russ.

[Victorman]

I have to reiterate, what a wonderful historic edged weapon which has come to light, in amazing state of preservation.

What? Are you behind the sale of this dagger, JR?

Just compare it with some of the (handful) known original Christmas SA daggers by Pack and you will immediately see that this is extremely far from the real deal!

For the past 75 years, NEVER a Christmas SS-dagger has surfaced and now suddenly several are popping up... even with a full Rohm inscription!


This dagger never even existed: here a fabricated grip (with original SS roundel) and blade have been added to early original Pack parts... that is all this is!

I wonder which other new daggers are going to be "invented" in the coming years???



Best regards,

Victorman

PS: I will not post any pictures this time because it only seems to help the fakers... and they are clearly among us!

[Jerry Burney]

Amusing thread...Anyone here thinks this is an example of the craftsmanship made during this era had better buy some books.

[101combatvet]

Amusing thread...Anyone here thinks this is an example of the craftsmanship made during this era had better buy some books.

YES!!!

[DALE ELLIS]

It would be nice to hear of the Grandfathers military history.

[Schlange]

IMO solid nickle patina looks like was produced by the addition of a chemical.
Very strange.


Schlange

https://mojalbum.com/schlange88

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=916564

[Frogprince]

Speaking as a general matter when blades are acid etched inside the etching it usually leaves a matte gray lightly textured surface sometimes called “frosting” that contrasts with the rest of the blade's polished or brush finish. German makers sometimes enhancing the etching by darkening the etch that could possibly be done with the etching mask still in place. To get to the point - rust on uncleaned blades will normally appear on the surface as patches of reddish oxide or darker depending on its age, and for the deeper rust it burrows in sometimes much deeper. And when the rust is cleaned off depending on its severity it leaves behind pitting and pinholes. The cleaning of heavy or heavier rust normally leaving a bare steel surface including the insides of the etching. But that is not what I seem to be seeing here, where its images with better lighting or a closer image, some of the etching looking like it has been done over the damage caused by rust. Add that into some other what I believe are good observations, if it was in hand I don’t think that it would survive some really good even closer examination. FP

[wilhelm Saris]

A nailed golden colored eagle with a so-called "prototype" SS-dagger? Come, come, there, there!!

[Frogprince]

What? Are you behind the sale of this dagger, JR?

Just compare it with some of the (handful) known original Christmas SA daggers by Pack and you will immediately see that this is extremely far from the real deal!

For the past 75 years, NEVER a Christmas SS-dagger has surfaced and now suddenly several are popping up... even with a full Rohm inscription!


This dagger never even existed: here a fabricated grip (with original SS roundel) and blade have been added to early original Pack parts... that is all this is!

I wonder which other new daggers are going to be "invented" in the coming years???



Best regards,


Victorman

PS: I will not post any pictures this time because it only seems to help the fakers... and they are clearly among us!

I was wondering about that myself. While they have gotten much better than the first ones, the PW copies of "SS" daggers and "humping up" of originals has never stopped. One of the oldest tricks in the "Handbook for Fakers" being to invent "never seen before now" fakes - a number of which actually made it into publication of the older "Reference Books". FP

[Serge M.]

Just compare it with some of the (handful) known original Christmas SA daggers by Pack and you will immediately see that this is extremely far from the real deal!

For the past 75 years, NEVER a Christmas SS-dagger has surfaced and now suddenly several are popping up... even with a full Rohm inscription!


This dagger never even existed: here a fabricated grip (with original SS roundel) and blade have been added to early original Pack parts... that is all this is!

I wonder which other new daggers are going to be "invented" in the coming years???



Best regards,

Victorman

PS: I will not post any pictures this time because it only seems to help the fakers... and they are clearly among us!

Victorman,
The current market supply on Christmas daggers gives a unheard opportunity to collectors who want a example to buy one if they choose to. One can acquire one with a Full Rohm dedication, a partial, and a full ground 'Christmas' SA dagger. And now one can acquire a SS Christmas dagger.

Now, I'll wait to see one that is found with both a SS and SA roundel in the grip.

I never seen or heard of such a rare opportunity to be able to get a whole series of Christmas daggers.

-Serge

[Almost Samurai]

So much focus on a nail... I don't understand. In the past 70 years is it absurd that an owner may have attempted a half ass repair? I've slapped a few nails in my time to temporarily fix things. I'm way out of my league when it comes to knowledge on daggers but I'm sure at some point, with many TR items, repairs were made by owners right? What is the biggest authentic hangup on this piece?

What I've learned here is.... unless it can be proven with documentation it's all hear-say. Yes, that means period authentic pieces without documentation very well may be legit but who is the judge on that if there are no other examples? Who has the final say if it's worth $100 or $100,000...I would think only the purchaser decides that? We can daydream and make very legitimate arguments about it till the cows come home. Doesn't change the fact that one may NEVER really have an answer to certain pieces in which history/documentation has been lost.

This is a great learning experience!

The dagger does have a very beautiful, period look about it. It's a shame its history is speculation from what I am reading.

[damasco]

Boy forums are just the greatest.. Anyone can post a opinion. ANYONE..
I was going to post last night about this thing..
But than I thought it was all a bad joke...
I have no hidden agendas here or ax to grind with anyone..

Guys come on open your eyes.. But you have to know what your looking at and also have solid research to back it up..
It is the year of the prototypes in Europe.....
Has it really become that hard to find good items ..
As I said I thought it was a bad joke...
The information is out there it is not lost..

Yes for those in the U.S,who go to Europe there is quite a lot of new and different things turning up for testing.
I also find it interesting how the poster plasters this item on other forums..
And when they have no good comments about it he moves on...
Why??
You must remember no matter how many years you have owned daggers or how many you may have that does not replace understanding how they were originally made and how to make modern (Frankensteins look old).
There are many one of a kind daggers and swords that can be backed up with original photos and documents but you have to spend money and time doing it.. But it is the minority who understand this or know this fact.. Many want to just stick there head in the sand..
This is not personal but a few will send very personal e-mails to me .
Please do not do this when off your meds or finishing off some TJ swan..
James