Himmler Dagger For Review

[11C]

Dealer's do not set the price, the market place sets the price by demand. They won't sell if the demand isn't there, regardless of the price and I haven't had any trouble selling a Himmler. Just sent one to Europe. Its an international hobby anymore.

That seems like a good business move Ron. I know of at least three major dealers who "stockpile" these daggers and release them on occasion to keep the "artificial" demand in check. The Himmler "myth" is essentially a dealer driven story about the rarity and desirability of this item. People who have been in this hobby for any length of time know how that game is played with this dagger. The price is driven by a few beautiful examples that are rarely sold, but allow the buyer to lust after a lesser piece for a stupid price. "I could never afford that piece, but I can get "this one" for half that price." There are LOTS of "this one's" out there.

[tobau]

My personally experience is that Röhm daggers are rarer than Himmler daggers available on the market!

[The Red Baron]

My personally experience is that Röhm daggers are rarer than Himmler daggers available on the market!

Of course! much rarer piece! I love em all though!

[RossK]

Though Himmler daggers identified to the original recipient are rarer than ided unground SS Röhm's (I have recorded 19 of these). Anyone have or know of an identified Himmler?

Enjoy!

RossK

[11C]

(The Bad)JR You had exactly what I was looking for and did not even contact me. (The Good) You have showed the doubters I am correct in that they were not all drawer queens."No business is good business"

Here you go Doc.............It's available again.

http://www.medamilitaria.com/himmler...er---d175.html

[DR DOLCH]

Here you go Doc.............It's available again.

http://www.medamilitaria.com/himmler...er---d175.html

I saw that.I wished the price matched the condition.

[BrianK]

That seems like a good business move Ron. I know of at least three major dealers who "stockpile" these daggers and release them on occasion to keep the "artificial" demand in check. The Himmler "myth" is essentially a dealer driven story about the rarity and desirability of this item. People who have been in this hobby for any length of time know how that game is played with this dagger. The price is driven by a few beautiful examples that are rarely sold, but allow the buyer to lust after a lesser piece for a stupid price. "I could never afford that piece, but I can get "this one" for half that price." There are LOTS of "this one's" out there.

Absolutely right on target. All hype set in motion by the 2 Toms, who have convinced rabid collectors that these are rare and a good investment.

[kiwitedferny]

Absolutely right on target. All hype set in motion by the 2 Toms, who have convinced rabid collectors that these are rare and a good investment.

'2Toms'? I've heard that before. Does it refer to T.Wit..., and T. John....?

[The Red Baron]

Yup thats the reference; although the theory of many of these daggers being stashed by dealers ought to be taken more as an assertion than fact in all fairness. And that's what this forum is all about assertions and the search for truth!

[Barry Brown]

Yup thats the reference; although the theory of many of these daggers being stashed by dealers ought to be taken more as an assertion than fact in all fairness. And that's what this forum is all about assertions and the search for truth!

Agree with the Red Baron. Surely, stockpiling Himmler's and unground Rohm's to artificially inflate demand and price would adversly affect even a major dealer's cash flow - especially if there are as many Himmler's around as is being suggested. One of the two dealer's cited in this thread mainly cherry picks quality consignment items to maintain an attractive inventory, hence no hidden stockpile.
Sales hype is another matter, of course. Prices of SS daggers escalated after publication of Tom Johnson's vol V in 1985, which featured the first in depth study of SS daggers and an attempt at "type" classification.

[BrianK]

'2Toms'? I've heard that before. Does it refer to T.Wit..., and T. John....?

To the 2 Toms, every dagger is "rare" and an "investment"; the hype & book writing is enough - they don't need to do any stockpiling.

[The Red Baron]

To the 2 Toms, every dagger is "rare" and an "investment"; the hype & book writing is enough - they don't need to do any stockpiling.

Wittmann is a great businessman, no doubting that, he seems to have played a large role in the promotion of this hobby and likely its prices as well; but what good business man doesn't! Plus to some, the prices make these pieces more attractive as an independent element.

As for the stashes of Himmler's I hope the they are soon released so we can all have a few mint ones in our collections!
The purported theory just doesn't make economic sense to me; as barry mentioned. I would think there would be more on the market......Why not sell now too, as prices seem to be declining! IF you find a stash bring that baby to the market and allow us all to afford them haha.

[BrianK]

Promotion and increased prices are great if you are the seller - not so great if you are the buyer.

[11C]

Agree with the Red Baron. Surely, stockpiling Himmler's and unground Rohm's to artificially inflate demand and price would adversly affect even a major dealer's cash flow - especially if there are as many Himmler's around as is being suggested. One of the two dealer's cited in this thread mainly cherry picks quality consignment items to maintain an attractive inventory, hence no hidden stockpile.
Sales hype is another matter, of course. Prices of SS daggers escalated after publication of Tom Johnson's vol V in 1985, which featured the first in depth study of SS daggers and an attempt at "type" classification.

You aren't suggesting that Wolfe or Burmeister or Shae have cash flow problems are you? You all have seen Whittmann's collection on the net: http://www.wwiidaggers.com/collectingroom.htm That's the kind of inventory to cash flow problem I want.. I have personally seen three of these daggers at Steve Wolfe's and they were just the ones on display in the case................who knows what was in the safe? If you think that Tom Johnson has less than 4 of these in his "personal" collection, you are sorely naive. At one time, I knew John Pepera had 8 or them in his collecton. Not ALL dealers stockpile these, but the big boys do. How many do you have Barry?

[The Red Baron]

You aren't suggesting that Wolfe or Burmeister or Shae have cash flow problems are you? You all have seen Whittmann's collection on the net: http://www.wwiidaggers.com/collectingroom.htm That's the kind of inventory to cash flow problem I want.. I have personally seen three of these daggers at Steve Wolfe's and they were just the ones on display in the case................who knows what was in the safe? If you think that Tom Johnson has less than 4 of these in his "personal" collection, you are sorely naive. At one time, I knew John Pepera had 8 or them in his collecton. Not ALL dealers stockpile these, but the big boys do. How many do you have Barry?

I think Barry was referring/rebutting your argument that they stockpile these for economic purposes. We all know those old time collectors probably have a a few; that doesn't mean they are trying to manipulate the market; most are just attached and hoarders of a sort, like all of us! Otherwise you could say the same about the people who have 100 SA daggers, or any type of dagger which I'm sure weinand and others have or have had "too many" copies of. Furthermore, Wolfe for example, may have a few and really enjoy them, but it someone really wants a nice top end one and will pay the 22-25k then he is likely willing to let one go; again, I don't think this is an intent to manipulate the market but rather a passion and a business model of sorts like many collector/dealers.