SS Officer Color Piped Crusher Cloth Visor Hat

[clestuff]

Your not comparing that cap to the one you posted are we ?

I'm comparing the liner material and how it is pleated my friend.

[AntiqueWW2]

Your Burnmarks are from a Torch, how they should get there in Combat? Russian Torch Brigade?

Just tell us all why you post always that Stuff, ask for Opinion and then you always not listen when everyone tells you what it is? What Sense that makes? Your Cap is Trash, no stiching no sweatband and nothing else will ever change that. Its a waste of time to even try to tell you what it is, when every single Thread from you end up the same way.

[clestuff]

I'm having a little trouble finding the "exposed stitching" on the front of the hat Lenny is talking about....

[clestuff]

Your Burnmarks are from a Torch, how they should get there in Combat? Russian Torch Brigade?

Just tell us all why you post always that Stuff, ask for Opinion and then you always not listen when everyone tells you what it is? What Sense that makes? Your Cap is Trash, no stiching no sweatband and nothing else will ever change that. Its a waste of time to even try to tell you what it is, when every single Thread from you end up the same way.

Are you really asking how fire would happen in combat??? Am I supposed to take anything you say seriously after that??

[BenVK]

Hi Cliff,

I agree that the lining fabric does look the same as the "Flemish" cap that's been on the Oakleaf website for many years.
http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/1206h3.html
There are also obvious differences as well however, yours is gabardine and the sweatbands are not the same either.
Btw, I'm not so keen on the Oakleaf cap as I was back in 2015 but never had it in my hands so can't say for certain.

[AntiqueWW2]

Yes, please explain me that. And i mean Spots of Burnmarks like on your Cap. I had in 30 Years not a single Visor with anything near what you call Combat Burn Marks. Maybe it has a similar Construction to another Fake Cap, but sure not anything similar to a real one. Different Material, different Sweatband, fake Skull and Eagle, Stiching is total nonsense and the so called Age to me is nothing what happen naturally, and therefore your Hat is fake.

Are you really asking how fire would happen in combat??? Am I supposed to take anything you say seriously after that??

[jacquesf]

All collectors with fakes should sent them to you as you are gifted with a divine ability to turn them into period originals. J

[clestuff]

All collectors with fakes should sent them to you as you are gifted with a divine ability to turn them into period originals. J

The fact is, only a handful of SS officer crushers exist and none are the same. For anybody to claim to be an expert on them is to show ignorance. Very, very few commenting here has ever even seen a real SS officers crusher never mind own one. What I am saying, all materials to make this hat are known period materials. All construction of the cap is know TR period construction. All inner materials are known TR period materials. There are obvious signs of age to pasteboard, inners, and cap body without looking at the burn marks. Many [most] SS hats have had insignia replaced and this hats pasteboard shows signs of skull removal. Fake insignia and burn marks have nothing to do with the hats originality. You have to look at the hat itself to judge. And so far I havn't seen a single comment that can point out a single detail of this hat that says its fake.

[Lloyd I.]

The fact is, only a handful of SS officer crushers exist and none are the same.

Then based on this, since none are the same, how is it we know constructions methods and materials used? What is the point of references if as you claim the German wartime manufacturers had no standards?

For anybody to claim to be an expert on them is to show ignorance. Very, very few commenting here has ever even seen a real SS officers crusher never mind own one.

Some of the members commenting have and have owned original examples. You're simply not listening to them.

What I am saying, all materials to make this hat are known period materials. All construction of the cap is know TR period construction. All inner materials are known TR period materials. There are obvious signs of age to pasteboard, inners, and cap body without looking at the burn marks.

Didn't you just say none are the same, ie no standard? But you're now saying there are standards?? False logic is what that is called.

Many [most] SS hats have had insignia replaced and this hats pasteboard shows signs of skull removal. Fake insignia and burn marks have nothing to do with the hats originality. You have to look at the hat itself to judge. And so far I havn't seen a single comment that can point out a single detail of this hat that says its fake.

A cap is the sum of it's parts taken on the whole. Fake insignia to start with is a sign that something else could be wrong. Aging a cap is what fakers do including creating the impression of previous insignia. Some even resort to pissing on repros and leaving them outside besides the classic burning method. The only thing missing is dusting the fake skull to leave an impression.


Why does every item need a story with you? You are also creating a story for this aged repro, as you did with the 'dispatch riders helmet' . "Taken in combat" will not make this badly aged reproduction and make it any more real than this yellow piped and superficially aged £5.90 repro sold by fallschirmjager.biz

Its okay to be wrong Cliff. Unless there is a need in you to always be right and only one kind of person can fix that and its not going to happen on a militaria forum.



You are obviously passionate and that is a good thing. It's not a good crusher and no matter how many times you tell us it is, chicken will never taste like steak.



Regards

[Lenny W]

I'm having a little trouble finding the "exposed stitching" on the front of the hat Lenny is talking about....

Post # 28 second and third picture

[WalterB]

Another chapter in an already ridiculous book. It becomes a tedious exercise with the same result.

1. He posts a ridiculous item asking for opinions from collectors who are knowledgeable in the area.

2. Knowledgeable collectors take the time to analyze item and express opinions doubting the originality of said item.

3. He takes offense, questions knowlegde of knowledgeable collectors and comes up with utterly ridiculous reasons why item is authentic.

4. Knowledgeable collectors re-assert reasons why item is bad.

5. He goes back to Step 3 above as many times as necessary.

Rinse and repeat until knowledgeable collectors shrug their shoulders and move on. But he needs to get the last word in so that he can sell this junk.

[clestuff]

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and that ok. I really have very little in the hat and do not plan to sell it. Clearly somebody worked really hard to "age" this hat to get a couple of hundred dollars out of me. The argument over the DAK helmet I had, had to do with the swastika painted on it thats all. The helmet is obviously real.

I have heard nothing, absolutely nothing in this discussion that would lead me to conclude this hat is fake. Just saying something is fake does not make it so. Comments from knowledgeable collectors? Perhaps there is some knowledge but I'm still waiting for evidence of it. I am knowledgeable myself and have been collecting and handling TR visors since the early 1970s. I havn't heard much from the real experts on this forum other than perhaps Billbert or BenVK. Is post 39 from Lloyd I. supposed to look anything like a real visor? To me its a awful fake somebody rubbed in the dirt. Its a bit obvious and a laughable comparison. Knowledge goes way beyond being able to spot an obvious "one looker". Anybody can do that.

I would like to hear somebody say, your hat is fake [because......]. Because it had fake insignia on it that was clearly replaced at one time or another? If that is the case a very high percentage of SS visors deemed "real" on this forum are fakes. Because it has fire damage? That's also weak. This hat could have been blasted off somebodys head in combat. Give me some real reasons the hat is fake if you guys are the knowledgeable experts you are claiming to be. To me, the age patina on my hat looks much more real than many of the examples I have seen. I would suspect the mint examples I have seen even more.

[clestuff]

To me, this looks like stress wear from being "crushed"....

[clestuff]

All collectors with fakes should sent them to you as you are gifted with a divine ability to turn them into period originals. J

I have no problem with that, lol. Please send pics first, Cliff

[clestuff]

"inners"

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=dutch+visor
This is a great thread for visor "inners" as I call them to see correct materials for hat construction. Notice the "snake" [as I call it] stiffener in post #6 in a crusher. Also post #63 is a good shot of padding and cheesecloth materials.