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Black Luftwaffe / HG overseas overseas cap - good one?

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    #46
    Thanks for all Your inputs, Gents!




    Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
    Welcome to the black HG panzer cap owners club and all the questions/ puzzles that go with it
    Thanks, Chris! I didn't know that this field is that complicated when I started the thread.



    Originally posted by clestuff View Post
    Now the inside looks brand new. No signs of use at all.
    Not at all. Only the human grime is gone, the traces of wear in the fabric even stand out more clearly now when You have it in hands and look at it.



    Originally posted by SgtB View Post
    Ramjet, I think you have a very nice cap there. It certainly appears all original to me. But you have effectively erased much of it's history, and whether or not it is actually an HG schiffen, I can't say.
    Here we have a completely different philosophy.

    Of course, I would never take for example a blackened badge to a silver bath to remove the patina. But I prefer to remove all the dirt an fabric item has collected over the past 70 years to get it near the condition it was when it was used pre-1945, as long as I do not damage the piece itself in any way.

    By the way, WWII soldiers cleaned their clothing, too, when it was dirty.




    @ all: Remember, this cap was a complete gamble for me, and not a cheap one. I had to rely on a row of not so good pics and very few expert opinions, and none of the top guys could determine finally if it was a good or a bad item. When I hold the cap in hands the first time I was still unsure abut it. Only after its behaviour during the handwashing process I was convinced. So putting one thing against the other, for me the pros of the cleaning counterbalanced well the cons.

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      #47
      Originally posted by RamJet View Post

      . . . Only the human grime is gone . . .
      .
      I think you are missing the whole point of collecting this stuff . . .

      Comment

        #48
        Originally posted by SgtB View Post
        I think you are missing the whole point of collecting this stuff . . .
        No, only different philosophies, as I said. The "It must have the heavy 'been there' grime look" and the "It must be as mint as possible" collectors will never find to each other. I am somewhere in between, tending to items only slightly used.

        But please: Not this fruitless discussion again, we have it in at least 100 other threads of this forum ...

        Comment

          #49
          Originally posted by RamJet View Post
          I do not know the seller, first contact, I am in Europe and he is overseas ...
          and I am not sure if I could really determine better if it is dyed or not when I have it in hands as I rely only on photos of the inside of dyed caps. I have few practical experience with this sort of headgear ...

          I hoped that someone could look at the pics and says: "Oh, typical traces from dye, don't buy it!" or (better) "Oh, typical traces from wear and not from dye, buy it!"

          At least the cap and the insignia seem original.

          By the way, we talk over 600 Euros here. Cheap for a real HG cap, much too expensive for a fake one.
          I haven't read all the posts so I might be repeating information.

          I would see if he will give you return policy. Once in hand you will be able to see if it is a re-dyed piece. The cloth will have color variations.

          Comment

            #50
            Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
            I haven't read all the posts so I might be repeating information.

            I would see if he will give you return policy. Once in hand you will be able to see if it is a re-dyed piece. The cloth will have color variations.

            Not re-dyed, no colour variations, colour stands firmly.

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              #51
              [QUOTE=SgtB;6682863]
              Originally posted by clestuff View Post
              . . . I don't know if washing it was the best idea but it is your cap to do as you wish . . . . QUOTE]

              Actually, I disagree completely with this statement. When I "restore" a cap, I do it in good faith and good conscience, and only add/subtract what does/doesn't belong there. I do so only with what I believe are historically accurate intentions based on future collectors. I realize this could be subjective, but I have never washed a cap.

              Other than that, clestuff, I agree with with your sentiments.

              Ramjet, I think you have a very nice cap there. It certainly appears all original to me. But you have effectively erased much of it's history, and whether or not it is actually an HG schiffen, I can't say.
              Sadly this ruined it for me. Airing it out will remove smell, washing it breaks down the fibers and establishes the possibility of mold.

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                #52
                [QUOTE=RamJet;6682956] Thanks, Chris! I didn't know that this field is that complicated when I started the thread.


                HG Panzer = very complicated for sure.

                Who is right, who is wrong, who knows ???

                Have a read of these threads;

                http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...r+wrap&page=49

                Chris

                Comment

                  #53
                  [QUOTE=SgtB;6682863]
                  Originally posted by clestuff View Post
                  . . . I don't know if washing it was the best idea but it is your cap to do as you wish . . . . QUOTE]

                  Actually, I disagree completely with this statement. When I "restore" a cap, I do it in good faith and good conscience, and only add/subtract what does/doesn't belong there. I do so only with what I believe are historically accurate intentions based on future collectors. I realize this could be subjective, but I have never washed a cap.

                  Other than that, clestuff, I agree with with your sentiments.

                  Ramjet, I think you have a very nice cap there. It certainly appears all original to me. But you have effectively erased much of it's history, and whether or not it is actually an HG schiffen, I can't say.
                  To me their is a BIG difference between "restoring" and "cleaning". A restoration is when a piece has missing or broken parts and it can be improved by replacing the missing or damaged parts. To me "cleaning" the hard combat won DNA from a military uniform or cap is a sin! You take the personality out of it and its just a cap. It's not like washing a car and doesn't "improve" it in the least. That's just how I feel about it. I think some people have been watching those idiots on Pawn Stars too much!

                  Comment

                    #54
                    Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
                    HG Panzer = very complicated for sure.

                    Who is right, who is wrong, who knows ???

                    Have a read of these threads;

                    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...r+wrap&page=49

                    Chris


                    Thanks, Chris, very interesting.

                    A few years ago there was a thread here in the WAF about Luftwaffe wraps and it was very controversial and highly interesting reading stuff. But I thought that a simple overseas cap was much easier to judge ...




                    @ all the guys out there who put their focus on the cleaning now without helping to determine the question if this cap is genuine or not:

                    I repeatedly explained why I decided to wash it and that this process brought me much more clarity about the item, and I am tired to explain that over and over again. Just read the whole thread.

                    Comment

                      #55
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