Black Luftwaffe / HG overseas overseas cap - good one?

[RamJet]

Thanks, drbill!



No more comments, negative or positive?

Must be a real difficult stuff to determine I suppose.
Keep me away from wasting my money, if this thing rises any doubts, guys!

[RamJet]

I bought the cap.

Thanks for all the PMs of the experts I asked directly (I do not know if they want that I state here who they are). Nobody was really sure about the cap and everone has some complaints, but interestingly these complaints neutralized one against the other. What one disliked was no problem for the next. And as no expert explicitly could tell that it was a fake I took the 700 Dollar risk.

Having it in hands now I am convinced that it is actually genuine (off course, I still welcome every opinion, positive or negative). It has wearing traces at the right spots and produced exactly the amount on natural dirt in the water when I carefully handwashed it (Before someone starts to blame me for that: I always try to get my stuff clean, as I display it open in my living and my bedroom and I would be a very lonely man when all the smell of 70 year old dirty clothing stands in these rooms. The only living beings attracted by the smell are the moths ...)

Besides, no colour faded during the washing, even the (criticized) size stamp stands as it was just put on. So at least this cap was none that was blackened artifically.

Now for the photos. Here is the actual colour of the cap: It is pitch black, no blueish tone.

[RamJet]

The forward edge, first pic before the cleaning with human dirt on it, second one after cleaning. On the second pic the wearing traces of the fabric clearly can be seen.

[RamJet]

Opposite side:

[RamJet]

The liner after cleaning:

[RamJet]

Outside of the cap:

[RamJet]

Inside outside:

[RamJet]

And the front and back. At the back also the traces can be seen at the edge where the fabric was weared down a little bit.

As I said, every new comment is welcomed!

[90th Light]

What sort of detergent did you wash it in ?

If you have not used natural soap then there is every chance the detergent had whitening compounds that it will now glow under a black light especially the white in the cockade.

Personnally and given the the controversial nature of a HG black panzer sidecap, I would not have washed this one. 80+ years of grime, patina, smell is what one is looking for when such a cap is held in hand.

Looks a lot more like an early "Janke" or a put together great coat special than it did to start off with. Keep in mind that it is the grime, patina and smell that the fakers struggle to get right.

If you wash a tropical cap, many collectors can see that it is still an original tropical cap made before May 1945 because the characteristics/ footprints of most of the makers of such caps are known. However, this is not the case with black panzer HG caps. There are very few black HG panzer caps in the world today that are accepted as original. We know very little about the makers/ characteristics of such caps that are 101% beyond doubt. Most that exist are seen as bad or top quality fakes. Many of the best fakes have been washed to try age them and make them look like period caps that have been washed after May 1945. Your cap is now in the league of a washed cap for anyone who has to try and decide if it is good or bad in the future

Will be interesting to see what others think,

Chris

[RamJet]

Natural soap of course, Chris, and very much rinsing with just clear water.

That's why I photographed it before and after. It was also an ultimate test for me as I have well experienced how fakes behave when they get cleaned. Artificial dirt looks different then the dust a fabric piece collected over decades. Stamps fade, colours change on most repros. This one looked exactly the same black from the outside and in the liner the colour also stayed unchanged. That it looked a little bit more intense in the pics is only because of the different light conditions when the photos were taken. The colour neither faded nor get it more intense in reality.

Actually, I was convinced completely only when I saw the cleaning results.

Your cap is now in the league of a washed cap for anyone who has to try and decide if it is good or bad in the future

I know that and I accepted it before I decided to wash or not. The decision was made a little bit easier as I do not buy such items for selling them with profit but to fit in my collection focus. I have other items of which I do not know if to keep them or not. None of these is washed, of course. This little black guy is meant to stay.

[90th Light]

I understand what you are saying RamJet and do not disagree

As you already know I also own black HG panzer caps. I see you commented on this thread about my black HG panzer M43 cap;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...LW+M-43+HG+Cap

I like my black panzer HG M43 cap a lot and it measures up very nicely against every other 101% Carl Halfar M43 that I have ever had a chance to handle or compare with. The black wool my cap is made from is 101% original and has held its jet-blue-black black colour perfectly. However, I am realistic about how others see this cap and the fact it was washed has probably not helped its case.


And you can see pictures of my black panzer HG sidecap in this thread post numbers 19 to 22. Again another cap I really enjoy with some interesting history about how it was brought back;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...Panzer+sidecap


Welcome to the black HG panzer cap owners club and all the questions/ puzzles that go with it,

Chris

[ferdinandmax]

here is another

[ferdinandmax]

zszszs

[clestuff]

I'm on the fence when it comes to this cap. It seems to have a lot of good things going for it. But, I like to see the inner stitch line. Also, when you have the sides folded down the raw edge looks too freshly cut for me and not like material that was cut 70 years ago. I don't know if washing it was the best idea but it is your cap to do as you wish. Perhaps the fray to the raw edge happened when you washed it. Now the inside looks brand new. No signs of use at all. Personally I don't think age patina of any kind should be removed. It is a great looking cap but not something I would buy. Just my HOP.

[SgtB]

[QUOTE=clestuff;6682377]. . . I don't know if washing it was the best idea but it is your cap to do as you wish . . . . QUOTE]

Actually, I disagree completely with this statement. When I "restore" a cap, I do it in good faith and good conscience, and only add/subtract what does/doesn't belong there. I do so only with what I believe are historically accurate intentions based on future collectors. I realize this could be subjective, but I have never washed a cap.

Other than that, clestuff, I agree with with your sentiments.

Ramjet, I think you have a very nice cap there. It certainly appears all original to me. But you have effectively erased much of it's history, and whether or not it is actually an HG schiffen, I can't say.