The German Chaplain

[Robert H]

There was once one Inf. visor cap with a maker marker mark from city of Ansbach.
This visor I was sold to one dealer and after some weeks the piping changed and was then a Chaplain visor cap.

[jmcm]

Thoughts on the tabs, Thanks

[pauke]

med

That is an excellent example of an EM medical overseas cap, dc9, and it is possible the fellow could have helped or assisted a chaplain. However, I would not say the cap is piped in the Waffenfarbe of chaplains.

[stonemint]

That is an excellent example of an EM medical overseas cap, dc9, and it is possible the fellow could have helped or assisted a chaplain. However, I would not say the cap is piped in the Waffenfarbe of chaplains.

I disagree--I have examined this one in person, and the 'farbe is definitely violet.

[jmcm]

Weren't all chaplains officers? Thats a em o/s cap.

[stonemint]

Weren't all chaplains officers? Thats a em o/s cap.

Joe, there were Chaplain's assistants--I assume this would have been worn by one of them.

[jmcm]

I do trust your eyes and opinion, Joe

[pauke]

Regardless of the color in question from the five books I've read concerning chaplains any assistant to chaplains would not be a permanent attachment and only available as a volunteer and normally from the medics or else a volunteer from whatever unit is being served by the chaplain at that moment. It's only a color for those appointed to the chaplain position and serving in the quasi-officer assignment. The army etc. had much greater need of the lower ranks doing other jobs than to provide chaplains with the luxury of permanent assistants. Yes, there were priests and ministers serving as enlisted men who occasionally were allowed to perform religious services, but they were wearing their units' piping and not violet.

[stonemint]

Here is an "NCO" Chaplain--he is also wearing EM/NCO tabs (and eagle).
While it does appear that the 'farbe on his visor is lighter, he is not detached from regular service, or else he would be wearing shoulder boards.

I will say that I am no specialist in the area of the clerical services, but the overseas cap posted by DC9 was unquestionably violet, and neither he, myself, or the other individuals we were with saw any signs of tampering.

I know I have seen other photos of "EM" chaplains (or assts), and I will try and dig them out in the meantime.

[pauke]

This studio photo shows a chaplain who has chosen to wear an early issue tunic sans straps and apparently an infantry-piped EM/NCO visor hat with a personal cross addition. I would expect he was with an infantry unit and chose to wear what he could get or what he desired to identify with the men. This looks like what was described in several books as sometimes literally everything was lost especially in the later retreat years and it was a scramble just to have clothing or find something similar to a chalice for communion services. He is still an official chaplain officer equivalent regardless of the uniform parts, his rank denoted by two crosses and no shoulder boards. A soutache can be debatable but what is not debatable to me is that there were no EM/NCO chaplain positions or uniforms. Certainly a dark blue can be close to violet or perhaps morph over time, but not the position appointment. Unfortunately all the books I read are only in German (4 from Chris L.), and to read them is a good education about what chaplains endured in life at its worst, but most needful moments.

[stonemint]

Pauke, we will have to agree to disagree, as the photograph is period proof of an NCO-equivalent Chaplain (or assistant).

The hat is a prewar private-purchase visor in doeskin, so I have trouble buying the "he just took what he could get" postulation. As a full chaplain, he would have been entitled to wear officer cords, which were never in short supply (original unissued cords can be readily found even today). This is a formal portrait, not one taken in the field/at the front, and if a "full chaplain", he could have easily have obtained cords, especially in light of the fact that he was able to source a cross for his visor (which is one of the rarest pieces of WH insignia to find).

[OSS]

Perhaps for Acolytes or Altar Boys.

[pauke]

Yes, as I noted he is in a studio. Another aspect to consider is that priests/ministers in training served their active time pre-war like anyone else and could easily have their own hat. Sometimes they got permission to continue their studies and take their vows, but many were called up as regular soldiers. Since this fellow does not wear chaplains' collar tabs what does that mean? There is no chaplain junior grade NCO altar boy assistant. I made up that "designation" and hope OSS likes it. He is wearing what he wants for a private photo as I said, but is a chaplain. If you can read the books which cover both Catholic and Evangelical you would get what I'm saying. But jedem das seine. To each his own.

[stonemint]

As a contrast to the EM/NCO Chaplain studio portrait photo I posted above, here is an NCO who is NOT a chaplain (note he wears shoulder straps), but is either acting as a Chappy assistant, or (more likely) he has some religious training/background and has been selected to give the eulogy for a fellow KIA soldier.

[2ND. PIONEER]

Bullion chap cross

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5-hCbXJC9Y

check this out, good footage to backup the bullion cross was period used.
i never saw this before but a very clear view.
take care all