Please post your DATED Erel Visors

[JasonA]

Interesting...I've seen many shots of Bob's former cap. This one is very similar to mine. I've seen a few of these posted now and then.

[Bob Lyons]

Hi Chris, thanks for posting the photos of my cap (Jason, it is still with me, and it ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon ! ).

Chris, I don't know about that 'Legendary' thing, my wife calls me some legendary names when I am in the bad books, that is about the only time I get into those rarified atmospheres mate....

An interesting thread, and I have been thoroughly enjoying it !

Best wishes

Bob

[JackHun]

Here´s a cap very similar to Jos´ cap up front.

[JackHun]

The date is close too...

[JackHun]

Just for reference another Vosstr. Erel - also undated

Jack

[stonemint]

Thanks for posting, guys.

Here are some rough rules of thumb for LW visors by Erel.

1. The LW downtail eagle was officially announced on Nov 11, 1935
2. The "flying tail" eagle was officially announced on April 1, 1937.

Granted, there would have been a depletion of existing stocks, but you can roughly date downtail eagle-visors to the Nov 1935-April 1937 period.

[stonemint]

3. The VAdLW was moved from the Vosstr to the Puttkamer address sometime in late 1937 to acommodate the new Reichskanzlei.

Therefore, any LW visor with a Vosstr address and a "flying eagle" can be dated to (roughly) April, 1937 to the late Fall of 1937.

4. It does not appear that Erel (or the VAdLW) stamp-dated their visors prior to the move from the Vosstr. address.

5. It also appears that Erel did not manufacture their patented Stirndruckfrei system until after the VAdLW relocated to the Puttkamer address.

[stonemint]

6. For now, the earliest-dated Erel vented system is May of 1938. At this time, as the patent had not been granted, the sweatband is stamped "DRGM, DRP angem" (patent applied for).

7. Lubstein relocated his factory from the Alt Moabit 105 address in April of 1938.

8. The new address (announced in UM on April 15, 1938) was at Berlin NO 55, Heinrich Roller Str. 16-17--the "Erelhaus".

[stonemint]

9. Per this document, the "air cushion" sweatband patent was officially granted on August 4, 1940.

[stonemint]

What preliminary conclusions can be drawn?

1. You should not see a sweatband marked with "Patent Stirnschutz" with the Alt Moabit address (due to the fact that the Patent was granted over 2 years after Lubstein moved his factory.

2. You should also never see a "Robert Lubstein" Alt Moabit cap for an officers visor. IMHO, this was their contract logo, and not meant for Extramuetzen and OKK/HKK/VAdLW visors. (Of course, their were officer upgrades).

3. You should never see a Vosstr VAdLW with the Patent Stirnschutz marking.

4. It also appears that you should not see a Vosstr visor with the "patent pending" markings, either, as apparently they did not institute the new system until after the move.

Of course, I still want to see many more hats--these are only preliminary hypotheses.

[merdock]

Hi,
Even though i have a lot of EREL caps this one is the only one with a date on.
Mark

[merdock]

sorry forgot the exterior the insignia is original to the cap.

[stonemint]

Regarding the Robert Lubstein contract caps:

1. If dated prior to 1938, they should all be at the Alt Moabit address.

2. If dated 1938, they can reflect both the Alt Moabit and the Heinrich Roller address;

3. If dated after 1938 (and as far as I am aware, they did not use this logo after 1939) they should always be at the Heinrich Roller address.

(If anyone has this style dated after 1939, please post it).

[stonemint]

Now, here is a nice DLV officers visor made by Erel, circa 34-35.
This one reflects the same Vosstr. address as the VAdLW, but is for the "DVS"--the Deutsche Verkehrsfliegerschule (German Air Transport School).
This was the cover organisation for a re-militarized Air Force going back to the Weimar era.

Obviously, once the LW came "out of the shadows" in 1935, the VAdDVS became the VAdLW:

[Leroy]

Stonemint - What do you make of the "pebbled" visor undersurface on the cap in Post 30? When seen in green, it is commonly rejected as fake, but I have always wondered.