Panzer m43

[ebony]

7 Halfar Panzer on top, POW Navy on bottom

[ebony]

8 LW shoulder strap tongue sitting on top of the Halfar Panzer lining. Almost identical except for shade of color.

[ebony]

9 Another shot of the LW tongue on top of the M43 lining.

[ebony]

10 A WH M42/43 edge of cap on top of the edge of the Halfar Panzer cap.

[ebony]

11 POW Navy edge of cap side by side with the edge of the Halfar Panzer M43 cap. Navy on left, Halfar on right.

[Lenny W]

are you comparing an m-43 to a m-34 cap i am not crAZY about the liner material on the blk lufty cap

[90th Light]

are you comparing an m-43 to a m-34 cap i am not crAZY about the liner material on the blk lufty cap

Hello Lenny,

I am comparing the used Halfar Panzer M43 with the well used POW KM sidecap because the exterior wool mix they are made of is almost identical. Posting number 225 shows this really well with the two top edges of the two caps side by side.

The reason for this slightly unusual comparison is because all those who dismiss the Halfar Panzer M43's say that they are not made of a war time wool. Well my one is so that's one myth laid to rest.

As for the lining, yes I agree but postings numbers 222 & 223 show a LW shoulder strap tongue lining which is the exact same material but a slightly different shade of color. Again this shows that such a material did exist during the war.

The more I study this Halfar Panzer M43 the more I like it,

Chris

[Richard P]

Chris,

Are you insane? Trying to show comparative photos and actually make a case for the originality of an item?

Get with the program...your supposed to come up with a clever catch phrase that no one else is already using to dis people's items. Don't try and ruin a good thing.

Richard

[90th Light]

Chris,

Are you insane? Trying to show comparative photos and actually make a case for the originality of an item?

Get with the program...your supposed to come up with a clever catch phrase that no one else is already using to dis people's items. Don't try and ruin a good thing.

Richard

Hello Richard,

well madness or genesis ??? fine line between the two bit like the fine line between the love or the hate of a Carl Halfar Panzer M43's

We could do with a bit more love of this stuff right now however rather than war over it, Me I love the investigation and all the detail that goes with it, always have.

Rarely in such matters however can a man ever be a prophet in his own time.

Best regards, Chris

[Richard P]

Chris,

Don't tell me your going to write TR reference books from the afterlife?

I'll buy them...if I'm still here.

Richard

[90th Light]

Chris,

Don't tell me your going to write TR reference books from the afterlife?

I'll buy them...if I'm still here.

Richard

No probably not but you have given me an idea, I could come back in the after-life and haunt those who disagree with my evidence about how original non-text book items that they dismissed as bad are in fact real.

Now there is a nightmare for some for sure,

Chris

[Willi Z.]

No probably not but you have given me an idea, I could come back in the after-life and haunt those who disagree with my evidence about how original non-text book items that they dismissed as bad are in fact real.

Now there is a nightmare for some for sure,

Chris

Isn't is odd that this thinking generally relates to headgear (trop M40s/M41s and M43s) and Panzer/Assault Gun wraps; two areas with a tremendous number of near convincing fakes (I'm sorry, I meant to say "variations") on the market?

Sorry, but the nightmare usually falls elsewhere.

I have seen entire collections focused on "variations" of headgear and wraps. All obtained for a fraction of the market value at the time in which they were puchased. I have also watched as the owners tried to sell them as well. I wish FJ collecting offered such possibilities.

It looks like we have a number of potential buyers for the cap in question..... it's a bargain.

[djpool]

Hi Willi,

One I applaud Chris for his efforts, whether anyone believes in the hat or not. Chris is a dedicated collector and is trying to evaluate the hat in a more systematic approach using comparisons to known original items etc. Its certainly an approach I favor. Certainly as good an approach as any. A decade+ ago you'd go to a show and see all the blacklights as the final measure of authenticity.

But this goes to another question. Theres sort of a subtle accusation that how could an advanced collector believe this cap was of wartime production. Any collector (young, old, new or veteran) can make themselves believe an item is original, when that may not be the case. It depends on your experiences, what factors or details your looking for when looking at, touching or smelling an item. Not every collector will draw the same conclusions when looking at the same item.

I've been a few heated discussions with collectors over Denim/HBT wraps with zig/zag stitching behind the collars. Many believe they existed, I disagree. Am I right, are they wrong. We're all entitled to our opinions and as long as they are happy I guess thats what matters.

My point has been there are many controversial pieces out in the market today which can be justified as original or fake. As a buyer you can't solely rely on the sellers word (who may truly believe its original), somethings original or not. How many times have we huddled in the "circle of experts" at shows passing around an item to determine authenticity. How many times do you end up with a consensus, in my case not that many.


WR Jim

Isn't is odd that this thinking generally relates to headgear (trop M40s/M41s and M43s) and Panzer/Assault Gun wraps; two areas with a tremendous number of near convincing fakes (I'm sorry, I meant to say "variations") on the market?

Sorry, but the nightmare usually falls elsewhere.

I have seen entire collections focused on "variations" of headgear and wraps. All obtained for a fraction of the market value at the time in which they were puchased. I have also watched as the owners tried to sell them as well. I wish FJ collecting offered such possibilities.

It looks like we have a number of potential buyers for the cap in question..... it's a bargain.

[BenVK]

Great work Chris.

[90th Light]

The challenge now becomes the fact that we divide into the "Blue and the Grey" over this;

the collector stuck with the cap desperately trying to justify that what they have is right verses the staunch well recognised collector of many years standing who states the cap is bad and that is that.

at some stage the cap collectors are going to have to evolve and become a little more "scientific" in their approach rather than relying so much on their "gut feelings"

I have always been impressed with the badge collectors in this regard. They have documented the footprints of each manufacturer and also documented the footprints of the fakers such as the "African Hero" Their approach is more professional and informed.

If an item was made by a certain manufacturer then their manufacturer's footprint will be there and the item will be made of war time materials.

as I have already stated, I was quite ready to accept that this Carl Halfar LW M43 was bad after seeing this stated on the forum. I thought, well that is as close as they come so I set out to find out what was good and what was bad. The more I investigated the more confusing this became, I was picking up a lot of good points and not many bad at all.

Now it may well be that this in fact a fake cap but it is one of the best fakes ever made or is it a real deal which is seriously mis-understood by the collecting community at large. No skin off my nose either way because it owes me nothing like $2500.

No the burning questions in my mind over all of this are;

1/ Where are all the Carl Halfar M43's from the war ? I mean how many visors did they need in the period 1943 to 1945 and what was the Halfar factory making at that time. They were a big company so why so few M43's and if this not the real deal then where are the real deals ?

2/ Who made this so called excellent fake of the Panzer M43 and what did they base it on ? Why is cap so close to the Org. Todt M43's by this maker ? I mean why copy a Org. Todt so closely and then completely stuff up the stamp after getting every thing else so right. All the attention to detail is there including the right materials except for the stamp and may be the lining. Why not put an RB number in it then we would be none the wiser or may be these are the Halfar Panzer M43's and that is why.

More questions than answers I known. Looks like the haunting has already begun in this life,

Chris