H.G. Panzer Beret

[tgn]

In my opinion I would be much more skeptical if someone popped up with an HG beret with the black HG eagle on it, as it is plentiful and available on a regular basis, and could now be sewn on in a manner that would meet even Glenn's approval.

Richard

Excellent comment, and so very true. I suspect there will be many more Luftwaffe berets appearing soon and all to Glenn's standards, unfortunately...

Tom

[Glenn McInnes]

Excellent comment, and so very true. I suspect there will be many more Luftwaffe berets appearing soon and all to Glenn's standards, unfortunately...

Tom

Are comments like this really necessary? Look Tom,I have doubts about when the insignia (certainly non standard insignia) was applied to this hat and it's manner of attachment.They are MY collecting standards not yours.


It is only MY opinion,which I am certainly entitled to voice here,especially considering the $20K price tag.



Glenn

[Bob Hritz]

I think all the orifinal beret tams have the spiral weave. It is very easy to seen on berets that were hadlled a lot with the nap worn off the wool. if the beret is not well worn, and the nap of the wool is near mint, it is most difficult to see. I usually take off the top and look at it through a strong light to make sure the weave is the correct spiral in the proper pattern.

I would think Bryon and Tom inspected the beret and this would have been mentioned if the tam cover was not proper.

Bob Hritz

[tgn]

Are comments like this really necessary? Look Tom,I have doubts about when the insignia (certainly non standard insignia) was applied to this hat and it's manner of attachment.They are MY collecting standards not yours.

It is only MY opinion,which I am certainly entitled to voice here,especially considering the $20K price tag.

Glenn

Take it easy Glenn. I wasn't maligning you at all. I think your standards are the safest to follow in today's high price collecting world. I too would feel much better about this beret is it had normal insignia applied in a more standard manner. I was just lamenting that now that we know that Luftwaffe berets indeed existed, copies will be made using your accepted standards, which are shared by most careful collectors.

Believe it or not, I always appreciate your comments on the various threads and pay careful attention to your opinions.

So don't be offended when I disagree with you. I am just trying to dig out the truth, as you are.

Tom

[tgn]

I think all the orifinal beret tams have the spiral weave. It is very easy to seen on berets that were hadlled a lot with the nap worn off the wool. if the beret is not well worn, and the nap of the wool is near mint, it is most difficult to see. I usually take off the top and look at it through a strong light to make sure the weave is the correct spiral in the proper pattern.

Bob Hritz

I will check this out again to be sure, but I believe the spiral weave is indeed there.

Tom

[Glenn McInnes]

Take it easy Glenn. I wasn't maligning you at all. I think your standards are the safest to follow in today's high price collecting world. I too would feel much better about this beret is it had normal insignia applied in a more standard manner. I was just lamenting that now that we know that Luftwaffe berets indeed existed, copies will be made using your accepted standards, which are shared by most careful collectors.

Believe it or not, I always appreciate your comments on the various threads and pay careful attention to your opinions.

So don't be offended when I disagree with you. I am just trying to dig out the truth, as you are.

Tom

Thank you Sir,



Glenn

[Mike Bollow]

I read Tom's comment to mean that the fakers will look at what an advanced collector like Glenn would deem acceptable and then create a bogus beret along those lines. It was actually a compliment I think.



Mike

[Mike Davis]

RE: Glenn's standards = nothing questionable in his collection.

Regarding the beret, after enlarging the image in PhotoShop, I'd have reservations about the insignia application as well.

[tgn]

Thank you Sir,

Glenn

Oh, don't call me "Sir", it makes me feel sooooooooo old.

Just "Tom" will be fine...

Tom

[billbert]

Just plain old Tom will be good rthen right??Billbert

[tgn]

Just plain old Tom will be good then right??Billbert

Correctamundo!

Tom

[pbuchh7715]

I think I found a picture of the beret....

Greetings,


All kidding aside....AWESOME thread and a wonderful way to educate myself and eat up 30 minutes or more at work.

Merry Christmas,

Peter

[Unfront]

Just adding my two cents late in the game. I collect items from RGG/HG. I own an HG wrap and overseas cap that meet all of my criteria. Even then, an RGG panzer beret is, in my world, way out of my league as they are extremely rare. However, paying close attention to the insignia, I have never seen a luftwaffe panzer eagle in bevo. At the time the berets were used with the RGG, most of the panzer crews were from the Heer. So I agree that the beret itself is original. However, the insignia is a little questionable.... Granted, it is all conjecture. It may very well be a good hat...but it does not meet my criteria, and for 19K...I would pass.

[Willi Z.]

RE: Glenn's standards = nothing questionable in his collection.

Regarding the beret, after enlarging the image in PhotoShop, I'd have reservations about the insignia application as well.

The only way to collect!

So, we are back to the insignia on the beret in question.

I hear some saying fakes with HG black eagles will now appear. Convincing fakes, I doubt it.

The photo certainly opens the door, but there is still much to know about an original. Black wool backed eagle and cockade or blue-gray (would they have made black ones during the pre-war years and why are we assuming they did?)? RGG unit markings or old Heer unit markings? Some still mention HG; how does one draw that conclusion? That would mean they wore these in late '42/ early '43.

Awesome thread this is!

[Leroy]

Has anyone EVER seen this specific cap eagle or, for that matter, any Luftwaffe
cap eagle, in BEVO on a dark background before? The lack of "sightings" of this eagle would be the only thing which would push me towards believing it was period-made and, in this case, period applied (despite this being in a collection since the 70's). Pretty simplistic approach, but what else do you have if everyone agrees that the beret itself is real and the Luftwaffe had these berets? In the absence of a photograph (which may certainly surface soon) showing this exact combination (and stitching pattern), where else do you go? You can debate markings all day long, but in the end they will establish no finite answer. IF that photograph surfaces (as Bob Hritz has noted), and if this beret has sold, someone will have made a great deal. If not, someone (at this price) will have overpaid by a few grand for a beret and a unique eagle. I think you would have to be either a real hardcore and serious collector (who would deserve real respect for his nerve) or someone who treats collecting like going to Vegas, to buy this piece today.