The late war economy Erel, did they exist?

[NTZ]

Good idea, Lasse here is one.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

4

That last one was mine, I know that coffee table and the hat box lid.

That cap is still on the market somewhere distant....

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

Ah, Stontmint brought it back to the top. Regarding the pressed paper I see no rhyme or reason on these. You can find them on what appear to be earlier visors along with mid to later ones.

Most of erel's thick pressed paper sweatbands are on the earlier (39 and before) visors. These were possibley a trial economy effort, due to the comp0any wanting to lower costs, or they were possibley a legitimate alternative to leather, as were considered "alkor" sweatbands (the paper/cloth type with the "leatherette" style covering).

Gerard

[NTZ]

Most of erel's thick pressed paper sweatbands are on the earlier (39 and before) visors. These were possibley a trial economy effort, due to the comp0any wanting to lower costs, or they were possibley a legitimate alternative to leather, as were considered "alkor" sweatbands (the paper/cloth type with the "leatherette" style covering).

Gerard

You are right about that, I have seen them before.

[Lasse Kongo]

Good idea, Lasse here is one.

OK, so let´s say they are period how do you know for sure they even are of Erel manufacture? Maybee Erel provided another manufacturer with linings? Or maybee another manufacturer of cheaper caps bought linings at the same place. This is also a question which needs to be addressed. Have someone picked one of these apart in pieces and found anything which would point at the caps not being peroiod except that some don´t like them?

I think one first must try to find out if these caps most certainly are wartime manufactured or not, then move on to the question about who manufactured them.

Or Gerald say, maybee it is a economic verson in the end of the war trying to meet the demands of Heer caps?

I myself belive them to be late war Erel manufactured caps in a economy version due to suppy and demand.

Lasse

[NTZ]

Lasse, the reason I have a hard time with them is this. Robert Lubstein ran his company like Henry Ford, mass production assembly line type work. All period Erel’s up to this point were extremely consistent in materials and construction. Now take a look at 10 or 20 of these. Just about every one has a different type of shape and sweatband. The sweatbands are all over the board in color, materials, and thickness. Assuming you are correct that there was a high demand for Heer caps at the end of the war you have to ask why is there no consistency? I would think by that time especially if they were trying to keep up with demand that the materials would be extremely consistent in an assembly line type process. They are not even consistent with visor material. Some are pressed paper and some Vulcan fiber. Then you have to ask why are 99% of them officers? I don’t think I have ever seen an EM/NCO and if I had they are few and far between. Why only Heer?

Then you have to ask why was there a demand? By mid 1944-45 things were chaotic to say the least. Germany was being bombed constantly, the Allies were invading and soldiers were trying to figure out how to stay alive. Not order their nice new visor. I would say that the least amount of demand would have been in the last few years of the war. These were not used in the field for the most part. They were part of a walking out uniform. Now mass production of field caps and helmets makes more sense. No matter how I try and process it it just does not make any sense to me. Am I right? I can only say I strongly feel I am. Could I be wrong? Of course I could.

[stonemint]

Like I have said before, I have yet to see a civil/political/state/KM/LW "Erel" visor of this type--only WH. If you have one other than WH, please post it. When/if I see a non-WH of this type of manufacture, I will that much closer be being a believer that these are wartime....

[Lasse Kongo]

Could I be wrong? Of course I could.

And that is probably as far as we come here.

Future will probably show. I am to tired discussing these any more for the moment. Let´s wait till some new late war "Erel" cap pops up which feels interesting to debate.

Merry Christmas
Lasse

[Kurt]

It has been a while since this topic has been discussed and in the meantime I have obtained a piece of headgear of this category which "makes sense" to me. By now I believe at least some late war Erels existed. The discussion on my visor stopped somehow but I wanted to offer it for discussion again. Hopefully, we can all learn something: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=late+war+erel

Kurt

[stonemint]

I am still a skeptic when it comes to these hats. When I get back from the "frozen tundra" of the midwest, I will post a true late-war erel.

[notton]

I am a skeptic aswell but the only thing I know about these caps is that we can find them everywhere in the world. In France, Germany, USA, GB ect, in good or bad condition.
If they were not make by Erel during the war I am asking who is the guy who made them after war ! Does anybody have an idea? Alsteste? Latvian fake ?

Notton

[NTZ]

My contention has always been that they were made by Erel (Lubstein) just outside of the war. It was a big company with nothing to do until the late 40’s. I always felt they were made for souvenirs for occupation troops. The construction to me is more reminiscent of post war Erel than wartime Erel. When I see one directly out of a vets hands (not an occupation vet) I will believe.

[notton]

I think you are right NTZ. They were made in Germany just after the war by Erel company for the American soldiers stationned in Germany .
I think ,it would be interesting to have a testimony from an American vet or the family of a vet on this assumption . Do you think it is still possible to find in USA a veteran from the WW2 who can talk about the nazi artifacts that they could buy or trade with people in Germany just after the war was ended?

Notton

[ApathyL]

A great thread, also takes time to go right through, anyhow after seeing those hats, I am not convinced that they are reall wartime examples. Maybe im not a fully experienced collector, im not saying something is original and period if its textbook because there are plenty of things out there that are period and not textbook, BUT I think if having a cap like that in my collection i wouldn`t sleep well. To those who have them well i guess if they are happy with them its great, but then again selling such things is not that easy.

Just my thoughts guys... Good luck.


Cheers, Les.

[Leroy]

I think you are right NTZ. They were made in Germany just after the war by Erel company for the American soldiers stationned in Germany .

I am confused. I thought Robert Lubstein was in the Soviet zone of occupation and after the war made hats for the Russians.