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The late war economy Erel, did they exist?

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    The late war economy Erel, did they exist?

    Gentleman I recently bought a so-called late war economy Erel form another member. Personally I have no strong reason to doubt the existence of them but never owned one so as they say curiosity killed the cat. I started this thread to get the opinions of other collectors regarding their feelings on these. I would love to hear any thoughts that can prove or disprove the legitimacy of the economy Erel. I would also love to hear from dealers that have sold them like Gerard and PVL. In fact I think Gerard has one on his site right now. So far out of everyone I talked to it is about a 50/50 split on their felling of authenticity. Well after a careful hands-on and a comparison to other Erel’s in my collection here are my findings along with some photos. Let’s discuss! This could be the rounder of the visor world, lol.




    Exterior:

    Cap Material: Trikot, similar weave and texture of mid to later war Erels. The color is just a bit more on the greener side similar to mid to late war Officers’ tunics.

    Piping: not a tight as weave as early war Erel’s but consistent with later war caps. The attachment and the butting of the ends consistent with war time production.

    Badge cloth: Identical to earlier Erel’s.

    The Visor: What appears to be pressed paper not vulcanfiber. Painted all black.

    Weight: substantially less that other Erel’s and all other wartime visors I have handled for that matter. This is due to the fact that it has much less padding than earlier Erel’s or other war time visors.

    Sweatband: Hart to tell the material for sure but I believe it might be pigskin. The attachment is the standard fold over type with the ends connected with the standard x stitch. The sweatband is not sewn like early Erel’s nor does it have the oilcloth in-between the sweatband and the cap base.

    Interior:

    Lining: It has the standard later war Erel lining. The lining has the proper folds and the ends or edges are the unfinished type. The lining also contains the quadrant markings in what appears to be red grease pencil with the size located on the rear. Under the lining is the proper cheesecloth between the lining and the cap.

    Sweat Shield: The sweat shield is with out a doubt made of celluloid and is the proper thickness. It is identical to all other Erel’s except the fact that the logo imprint on the lining either was never foiled or has disappeared with age. The impression is clear on the lining of the cap and in regards to this cap is an Extra.

    Padding: The cap lacks most of the padding found on other Erel examples. The padding seems to be all around the overhang but little to none in the peak. I was not about to destroy the cap to compare material used for the padding but by feel appears to be the same type used on earlier Erel’s.

    Peak stiffener: The peak stiffener is the standard hardened cheesecloth type and is consistent with wartime production.

    Internal wire stiffener: None.

    Paste board: This to me was one of the most positive signs on the cap. It is identical to the pasteboard found on all other Erel’s I have examined. It is the black hardened type commonly found in Erel’s.

    Chin cord buttons: These are the prong types with brass inner ring in a silver pebbled finish.

    Finally basic construction methods: I can find no significant different in method of construction over earlier Erel’s, i.e. stitching methods, quality of workmanship and so on.
    Attached Files
    184
    Yes
    75.54%
    139
    No
    24.46%
    45
    Last edited by Lenny W; 04-29-2020, 01:42 PM. Reason: Merged posts

    #2
    Nick, my friend
    nice cap !
    but I dont like the visor...( visor 100% black and not marqued under the visor, visor removed or not? )
    this cap is excellent condition, maybe never attribution....
    diamond no problem ! interior ok, piping ok...

    Mickey the expert lol

    Comment


      #3
      Since I know know the family of the now-deceased Vet that brought this specific cap home in September 1945, I am somewhat biased. I know it's original not from advanced study or the handling many Erel caps, I am going by my direct acquisition from the Vet and his family.

      Hope that does not queer the poll.
      Alitur vitium vivitque tegendo

      Comment


        #4
        Mickey how did I know you would be the first to post, lol

        Comment


          #5
          100% original last production erel visor cap. These also came with the standard sweatband. Visor may be a pressed paper, but is an ersatz type of some sort. Badgecloth and piping are more "feltlike" than the earlier heavy wool piping. This model was lighter because of economization of materials, but also because the style had changed by this time to a higher peak, more saddle style, that with the lighter materials, they were able to create with less padding inside. This, of course, is speculation. It may also have been to keep rising costs down to fulfill contracts with the the Offizier Kleiderkasse of the army, etc. Very nice cap, I have also seen and many of these that were untouched and probably nearly 10 of them that have come from veterans or their families. If you want contoversy, tackle the Pek******252;ro caps that never had sweatdiamonds.....

          Gerard

          Comment


            #6
            Hi NTZ,
            In your 1st. post, you have described this Kav. example to a T.
            I don't own it anymore, but I still have a few pictures.

            Interior shot showing extensive storage damge, which reveals the cheesecloth...

            I have found some more pictures of the Kav. visor which I posted earlier in this thread and the extensive mothing to this cap reveals that some of the construction methods & materials are not quite what one would expect to see on an EREL.

            Firstly, the core to the piping is made of a strange, oily, U.V. negative, whitish, soft plastic-like substance. (as best I can describe it).

            The capband is made from bottle green felted wool, whereas the bottom rim is fine field grey doeskin, all constructed over a black semi-gloss cardboard frame.

            There is a very slight orange peel texture to the laquer on the visor.

            The split to the sweatleather at 1 O'clock has been there since manufacture and has been reinforced from behind with a piece of exactly the same leather.

            View of the reinforcing strip behind the split...

            This cap also has the usual quadrant marks to the inside, in what looks like red chinagraph.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Lenny W; 04-29-2020, 02:00 PM. Reason: Merged posts

            Comment


              #7
              Great info so far We do have three no votes with no explanation though. I hope the nay’s speak up too.

              Comment


                #8
                Anyone who does not like these and has one, I will buy it off of you, no problem, email me at idols2@fast.net

                Comment


                  #9
                  A very interesting thread. J C Gray, can you show the imprint on the leather sweatband of your cavalry cap I can't quite make it out. Is it an Erel stamp?
                  Derek

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I had a late-war Erel Arty visor with the more standard cross-hatched brown underside. It was a more "green" color than earlier caps, with a fuzzier doeskin wool. It still had the Erel imprint in silver on the sweat band. Does the cap in question have the embossed logo ont he sweatband? I cannot tell from the pictures...

                    Don

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by derek
                      A very interesting thread. J C Gray, can you show the imprint on the leather sweatband of your cavalry cap I can't quite make it out. Is it an Erel stamp?
                      Derek
                      I don't think so. It's the Deutsch Leder stamp isn't it?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        BenVK,
                        That's certainly what the stamp looks like. So, is the supposition here that Erel adopted these generic sweatbands? I can't tell from the posted shots whether there is any imprint under the sweatband.
                        Derek

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi,
                          Erel always had generic sweatbands, just not on the more expensive models. The "standard" almost always came with a normal (non-erel) sweatband. There late -war caps are found with this sweatband and also the regular erel version. The black undersided visors are the last type erel made.


                          Gerard

                          PS-it does have the erel logo, I can see it in the photos.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Gerard, when do you think Erel started to implement the black pressed paper visors in about mid 44 or early 45?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hi,
                              Somewhere in there, not 100% sure. The caps are def. original though. Interesting that almost 1/2 the votes say the cap is bad. I still have gotten no offers of any for sale though.


                              Gerard

                              Comment

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