The late war economy Erel, did they exist?

[BenVK]

Here's another for the files..
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=101352

[Diane]

Deutsche Reichsbahn Robert Lubstein / Erel Visor cap circa 1946

Here is a picture of a Robert Lubstein / Erel Marked German Railway cap cirac 1946 - 47.





Note the materials and construction techniques. They are unchanged from the the late war Erel caps.





After the War Robert Lubstein / Erel continued to make caps for the Postal Service, Railway, Police and Soviet Army.

In 1948 The Lubstein firm was seized by the East German Government when the owners fled to the west and the firm was renamed "Emhage".

I think the wartime paper visors are original and it appears they were used by Erel until the liquidation of the firm by the East German Regime.

A great thread - keep up the good work guys.


Diane

[TONY Q.W.]

A very interesting example Diane, thanks for sharing

[Dave Kane]

Here is a picture of a Robert Lubstein / Erel Marked German Railway cap cirac 1946 - 47.





Note the materials and construction techniques. They are unchanged from the the late war Erel caps.





After the War Robert Lubstein / Erel continued to make caps for the Postal Service, Railway, Police and Soviet Army.

In 1948 The Lubstein firm was seized by the East German Government when the owners fled to the west and the firm was renamed "Emhage".

I think the wartime paper visors are original and it appears they were used by Erel until the liquidation of the firm by the East German Regime.

A great thread - keep up the good work guys.


Diane

I thought that there was a greater 'time line' than a couple of years.....?

Anyway, here's a very early 50's 'Erel' albeit now known as....

[NTZ]

Dave I am glad you posted that cap. I stole these photos from the DDR section. It is an early post war visor made from what became of Lubstein’s company. Now look at some more similarities to the late ware Erel. Look at the piping and trikot material.

Inside, also look at the sweatband and its material.

[TONY Q.W.]

Does any body know what year during the war did they move to the new address "Berlin No 55"?

[SgtB]

Really a great thread, Nick! I just saw it for the first time and read through it. And it's good to see that some of the big dogs weighed in, even though they have differing views.

I've never owned one of these, mainly because I've never gotten one from a vet or estate. In fact for decades, I never even saw them. Then when I did first see one, it scared me. And now that we have the internet, I see them all the time. It wasn't the visor that bothered me, because I've seen cardboard visors on many real caps. It was the folded over sweatband that really had me puzzled. The standard eReL sweatband is such an indelible trademark of the firm, that I could not see them letting it go.

I can see why M-35 helmets morphed into M-42's (and possibly M-45's)
over the war years, because of costs and the ever-growing need to get
more helmets to the front lines quicker. However, this theory can hardly
apply to officer's private-purchase schirmutzen - basically an unnecessary luxury item at the front. Especially towards the end.

I can definitely understand a change in materials due to short supply, but not in pride of craftsmanship. Therefore a DL sweatband wouldn't really bother me so much, but I would expect to see it attached with the pressure-free system.

There are many good arguments, pro & con, on this thread. I'm not ready to vote aye or nay yet though as I'm just not sure. I guess I would lean slightly to the nay, based on my own school of hard knocks, but many whose opinions I respect feel differently.

I have seen Janke caps with cardboard visors not unlike these.

[NTZ]

Thanks Brian. I think these are worth discussion. The more we as collectors keep excepting what does not make sense, the more we are what amounts to vetting fakes. From what I have been told by the real long time collectors is that they see caps being excepted as original that they would have never of even looked at 20 or 30yrs ago. I will leave you with a great pic. This side by side tells it all IMO.


Tony, Lubstein moved production to #55 in 1939.

[TONY Q.W.]

Tony, Lubstein moved production to #55 in 1939.

Cheers, I was always a bad student in theory

[SgtB]

Nick!

Your side by side shot does speak volumes, however it could work both ways. It could be argued that the "late-war erels" are really post war caps made by emhage for the budding collector market or even the film industry. Or it could be theoried that emhage simply kept making legitimate post-war caps in the same way as they did late-war caps after a possible period of re-tooling or re-staffing, due to wartime economics.

[NTZ]

Nick!

Your side by side shot does speak volumes, however it could work both ways. It could be argued that the "late-war erels" are really post war caps made by emhage for the budding collector market or even the film industry. Or it could be theoried that emhage simply kept making legitimate post-war caps in the same way as they did late-war caps after a possible period of re-tooling or re-staffing, due to wartime economics.

I agree it could go either way but my gut after a hands on with one of these is the later.

[stonemint]

Nick: So where does the paper sweatband come in on the Erel evolutionary line?

[NTZ]

Ah, Stontmint brought it back to the top. Regarding the pressed paper I see no rhyme or reason on these. You can find them on what appear to be earlier visors along with mid to later ones.

[mjfur]

What is the latest date stamp to be found in these eReL's? Any 1945's?

Regards,
Mike

[stonemint]

In light of Lasse & NTZ's spirited debate, and the confusion over the "late-war" Erel, I thought it would be important to bring this old topic back to the top to show what is meant by the controversial "late-war" Erels....